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M

Mike M

Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
334
I still find it curious how SI still has the same three BC’s going back to the 1930’s even as we all know the population has increased ten-fold. Need a BC at 168 or at EMS Station 22 and rebalance with the other three.
The 23 hardly ever makes it in to anything in 151,164,168’s area.
 
F

fdhistorian

Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
911
Mike M said:
I still find it curious how SI still has the same three BC’s going back to the 1930’s even as we all know the population has increased ten-fold. Need a BC at 168 or at EMS Station 22 and rebalance with the other three.
The 23 hardly ever makes it in to anything in 151,164,168’s area.
Click to expand...
The same could be said about Queens battalions. Look at the 47, 52, 53 and 54. The 59 was added and disbanded.

From an earlier post:

Battalions
A frequent, recurring observation across the discussion threads is that Staten Island needs another battalion. While many determining factors have changed over the years in Staten Island and city-wide, the number of battalions remains unchanged. In fact, the number of battalions overall has changed minimally over the years.

Battalions have been added only twice during the history of the department. Initially, battalions were added as the city and the department was growing and building out. The total number of original, legacy, land battalions topped out at 47 in 1930. (The battalions were numbered from 1 to 54 with numbers 24 to 30 having been retired in the 1906 renumbering.)

The total number of battalions (47) remained unchanged through 1969. (Even the number of battalions per borough was essentially unchanged. The only exception was the move of Battalion 3 from Manhattan to The Bronx in 1956.)

The only other period when battalions were added began in the mid 1960’s. The activity levels of the War Years resulted in the formation of seven battalion second sections and four new battalions. In 1969, the seven second section battalions were made original sections for a total of 58 land battalions. (Battalions were numbered from 1 to 60 with numbers 24 to 30 still remaining unused.)

Reflecting the higher activity areas of the city, battalions were added in Manhattan + 1, The Bronx + 4, Brooklyn + 5, Queens + 1, and Staten Island unchanged.

By the late 1980s, six of the 1969 new battalions (25, 29, 55, 56, 59, 60) and three of the legacy (5, 34, 36) battalions were disbanded. Five of the 1969 battalions remained (26, 27, 28, 57, 58).

Compared to 1957, battalion changes were: Manhattan -1, Bronx +2, Brooklyn +1, Queens unchanged, and Staten Island unchanged. Citywide total change +2.

In 91 years, from 1930 to the present, only two land battalions have been permanently added in total.

The number of battalions in Staten Island and Queens has been unchanged. The one additional 1969 battalion in Queens was rescinded. Given the similarity of the battalion organization and the history of both boroughs, the need for an additional battalion in one borough would likely also be reevaluated in the other borough.
 
TLTruckie

TLTruckie

Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
290
fdhistorian said:
The same could be said about Queens battalions. Look at the 47, 52, 53 and 54. The 59 was added and disbanded.

From an earlier post:

Battalions
A frequent, recurring observation across the discussion threads is that Staten Island needs another battalion. While many determining factors have changed over the years in Staten Island and city-wide, the number of battalions remains unchanged. In fact, the number of battalions overall has changed minimally over the years.

Battalions have been added only twice during the history of the department. Initially, battalions were added as the city and the department was growing and building out. The total number of original, legacy, land battalions topped out at 47 in 1930. (The battalions were numbered from 1 to 54 with numbers 24 to 30 having been retired in the 1906 renumbering.)

The total number of battalions (47) remained unchanged through 1969. (Even the number of battalions per borough was essentially unchanged. The only exception was the move of Battalion 3 from Manhattan to The Bronx in 1956.)

The only other period when battalions were added began in the mid 1960’s. The activity levels of the War Years resulted in the formation of seven battalion second sections and four new battalions. In 1969, the seven second section battalions were made original sections for a total of 58 land battalions. (Battalions were numbered from 1 to 60 with numbers 24 to 30 still remaining unused.)

Reflecting the higher activity areas of the city, battalions were added in Manhattan + 1, The Bronx + 4, Brooklyn + 5, Queens + 1, and Staten Island unchanged.

By the late 1980s, six of the 1969 new battalions (25, 29, 55, 56, 59, 60) and three of the legacy (5, 34, 36) battalions were disbanded. Five of the 1969 battalions remained (26, 27, 28, 57, 58).

Compared to 1957, battalion changes were: Manhattan -1, Bronx +2, Brooklyn +1, Queens unchanged, and Staten Island unchanged. Citywide total change +2.

In 91 years, from 1930 to the present, only two land battalions have been permanently added in total.

The number of battalions in Staten Island and Queens has been unchanged. The one additional 1969 battalion in Queens was rescinded. Given the similarity of the battalion organization and the history of both boroughs, the need for an additional battalion in one borough would likely also be reevaluated in the other borough.
Click to expand...
The 28 Batt was added and still remains in Brooklyn but at lest half of its response area is in Queens , Ridgewood & Glendale. So yes , Queens did benefit from adding the extra Battlion in Brooklyn .
 
F

fdhistorian

Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
911
TLTruckie said:
The 28 Batt was added and still remains in Brooklyn but at lest half of its response area is in Queens , Ridgewood & Glendale. So yes , Queens did benefit from adding the extra Battlion in Brooklyn .
Click to expand...
The 28 made it possible to close the 59 and the 45 made it possible to close the 36.
 
T

t123ken

Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
726
Based on B-59's establishment, long after B-28's, B-51 relocated east.
When the 59 was disbanded, the 51 should have been moved back.
 
A

Atlas

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
882
t123ken said:
Based on B-59's establishment, long after B-28's, B-51 relocated east.
When the 59 was disbanded, the 51 should have been moved back.
Click to expand...
Why move Batt 51 back? Part of the move was done to split up some of the South Jamaica workload. Batt 54 was being overloaded with work. Since the city was short on cash over the years the dept decided to make a few moves in order the reduce the 54th workload. To accomplish this they had to find fire stations that had room for a battalion. Eng 326's had an office that was once used by a Fire Commissioner, so the 53 Batt left Eng 306 in Bayside and started to pick up the northern area of the 54th. With the move of the 51st to Eng 308 the 54th lost some of its western response area.

So with the 51st at Eng 308, Brooklyn's 39th Batt now has increased their response area helping to keep them alive.

As we all should know since the war years, Brooklyn lost 4 battalions and currently only have 16 serving there area. With the lost of the 59th Batt Batt 46 started increasing their responses. The 45th picked up boxes heading toward Eng 291's area.

There was talk of moving Batt 28 into Queens but where? Fire house space is limited. What we learned from the history of Batt 59 is that Eng 319 on a map might look like is was the right spot, might have had the space in quarters. I don't think it was the right spot and that is why it is no longer in service.
 
68jk09

68jk09

Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
16,163
Prior to the 59 being in 319 the 46 was # One in NYC for Runs ( # 1 In The Big Apple ).....the 59 really only had the 46 & the 28s slower Boxes so the 59 did not have much impact on the 46 so the next move was to take some of the 46s North Eastern Boxes & give them to the 52,,,,,,at one point there was a BC in the 46 who was getting tired of the running so he made a swap with a BC in the 52 who was looking to do more.....soon after the swap the 52 picked up the additional prior 46 boxes somewhat increasing the 52s Runs ......sort of followed him.
 
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pefroymson

pefroymson

Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Messages
21
WOW I certainly did not expect such a discussion, Thanks guys. We out here in the west are used to constant growth, new stations. etc
 
jlab

jlab

Joined
May 10, 2019
Messages
479
fdhistorian said:
From 1929 to 1961, no new ladder companies were organized. In the 1960's, eight new ladders were established. In the Bronx, Ladders 54 and 55 received the next available numbers, and on Staten Island, Ladders 85 and 86 were next up.
In Brooklyn and Queens, the next up numbers began at 171, but five lower numbers had been skipped going back to 1929. Thus, the Snyder Ave firehouse, scheduled and once lettered for Ladder 160, instead received Ladder 174. It wasn't until 1984 that Ladder 160 was finally organized in Queens, having been scheduled in 1927 for 310 house. Ladders 139, 141 and 145 also have different units in their scheduled locations.
Click to expand...
When was ladder 87 established on Staten Island ?
 
B

bronxbuff

Joined
Jul 21, 2022
Messages
38
68jk09 said:
Prior to the 59 being in 319 the 46 was # One in NYC for Runs ( # 1 In The Big Apple ).....the 59 really only had the 46 & the 28s slower Boxes so the 59 did not have much impact on the 46 so the next move was to take some of the 46s North Eastern Boxes & give them to the 52,,,,,,at one point there was a BC in the 46 who was getting tired of the running so he made a swap with a BC in the 52 who was looking to do more.....soon after the swap the 52 picked up the additional prior 46 boxes somewhat increasing the 52s Runs ......sort of followed him.
Click to expand...
If you look around the bay area of E319, there is still reminisce of the 59 being there. Next time I go I will take a photo of it.
 
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