12/20/23 Queens 5th Alarm Box 7254

tperez102 said:
Way back The FDNY had the Fire Patrol if we remember those disbanded units. I believe each borough had one. These units would help mitigate water damage to the floors below using tarps canvas back then i believe. Redirect water using Dikes.
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There was 3 at the time of their disbanding. 1 and 2 were in Manhattan and FP 3 was in Brooklyn. Going by FDNYtrucks photos. There may have been more at 1 point.
 
NikFDNY said:
At its peak in the 1930s, they had atleast 10 stations
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I dont doubt it. For some reason I remember 5 in the 80s or early 90s but could be wrong. Of all the commercial fires I was at in the early 90s I only remember seeing 1 at a Queens fire. That was a hardware store in Coleman Sq. At that time Blockbuster burned at least 3x, the old Wauldbaums or A and P burned at least once and there were several other stores along the Blvd that burned to varying degrees.
 
RCL said:
I dont doubt it. For some reason I remember 5 in the 80s or early 90s but could be wrong. Of all the commercial fires I was at in the early 90s I only remember seeing 1 at a Queens fire. That was a hardware store in Coleman Sq. At that time Blockbuster burned at least 3x, the old Wauldbaums or A and P burned at least once and there were several other stores along the Blvd that burned to varying degrees.
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I remember seeing at one point they had 16 but I checked and couldnt find anything on 16 stations.
 
entropychaser said:
Chicago has used specials since the dawn of time. Beginning in late 1927 CFD began switching from 3-11 running cards to 5--11 cards. The Burlington Fire (1922 ?) ran out the card with a 3-11 and 10 specials. Ken Little was working at Main FAO on 1/21/57 when they hit a 5-11 and 8 specials for the Continental Grain Elevator at 93rd Street and the Calumet River. On the 8th special were 3 engines and 2 squads.
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Love the Ken Little mention, he was a legend at Main FAO. And a heck of a nice guy, always had time to answer your questions. Helped author the 4 volume History of Chicago Firehouses from 1858 onwards.
 
tperez102 said:
Way back The FDNY had the Fire Patrol if we remember those disbanded units. I believe each borough had one. These units would help mitigate water damage to the floors below using tarps canvas back then i believe. Redirect water using Dikes.
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Chicago also had a Fire Insurance Patrol from 1871 until 1959. A book on its history is available @ Fire-Police-EMS.com.
 
grumpy grizzly said:
Love the Ken Little mention, he was a legend at Main FAO. And a heck of a nice guy, always had time to answer your questions. Helped author the 4 volume History of Chicago Firehouses from 1858 onwards.
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Years ago I was in Chicago for a family reunion (wife's). I convinced Ken to give the crowd a bus tour of Chicago. Our first stop was an old church on the Northside burned down in the Great Fire. Inside, there's a wedding in progress. Ceremonies are temporarily halted while Ken gives us and the wedding party a short talk about the church's storied history.

While taking a break, Ken asks the bus driver( foreign born) where he lives. The guy says something like 2125 S. Archer Ave. Ken says "If you're standing on your front porch and look left to the corner it's S. 21st St. If you look to the right it's S. 22nd St. The driver looks at Ken like he just pulled a rabbit out of a hat as he shakes his head Yes. I'm thinking " Well Duh!"

Ken was an absolute treasure to the CFD. He knew everyone, what had happened and where everything was!
 
NikFDNY said:
At its peak in the 1930s, they had atleast 10 stations
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The New York Fire Patrol operated by the Association of Fire Insurance Companies from 1835 to 1883 had 4 units.
In 1883, these units became the NY Board of Fire Underwriters Fire Patrol 1 - 4, all in Manhattan.
Fire Patrol 5 and 7 were added later in Manhattan, and Fire Patrol 6 was added in the Bronx.
The Brooklyn Insurance Salvage Corps operated 3 units that merged into the NYBFU in 1911 as Fire Patrols 8, 9, and 10.

As units were disbanded, remaining units assumed the lower disbanded units number.

The insurance companies discontinued the last three Fire Patrol units in 2006.

The Model Cities program funded 5 salvage units from 1972 to 1991.
 
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don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
 
jloonz said:
don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
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That’s just the title… they are still ACs and DACs….

3rd Alarm Chief who had Citywide was 15A
4th Alarm Chief was 15
5th Alarm Chief was 4A

Any extension is an automatic extra engine & truck. Cockloft is supposed to be a automatic 2nd Alarm
 
jloonz said:
don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
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I cant explain the chief of training and fire academy other then to get 1st hand experience of what works and doesn't so they can develop real world scenarios to use for further training

The extra engine and truck is a case by case basis. The ic may feel they can handle the situation with just a little help and not tie up additional units. There are cases especially recently where they've gone straight to a 2nd.
 
jloonz said:
don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
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a extra E and T depends on the IC's decision, if they think they only need a special call instead of another alarm, they'll call for a Engine and Truck, but if the fire grows to the point that the 1st Alarm units on sence just ain't gonna cut it, then it goes to the 2-2.

Also with the CoT and CoFA, they can both be CWTC's on different nights, any Chief of a Unit (not the Battalions and Divisons and MAYBE the Borough Commanders) can be the CWTC on any given basis, there's been multiple times this month the Chief of Training has responded as the Citywide Tour Commander, once they arrive they become the IC until someone above them arrives (I.e. the COD). Since there in command its there discretion on if they'll PWH with the units they have on sence or go to a higher alarm, or Special call Appratus if its already at the 5-5, (the only special call above the 5-5 rule is a relativly new policy, only being implemented after the 8 Alarm Fire in Jackson Heights, Queens back in 2021) Usually there supposed to respond at the 4th Alarm I believe, Borough Commanders going on the 3rd. I hope this answers your question.

Not sure if this is the correct answer, anyone mind telling me if my answer is right?
 
received and understood I understand the whole incident command system. I just wondering if that’s how they’re being used and I understand now that they’re probably being utilized in that sort of aspect especially at the planning level. Thank you.
 
There is no rhyme or reason with the Staff Chiefs anymore....Command Chief goes at his discretion on 2-2, has to go on 3-3.....COO and COD on 4-4 but do what they please. As far as SOC and Safety....Usually they go to 4-4 and higher more so in an unofficial capacity....nothing official as part of an ICS structure. 12-B is the Safety Liaison BC who represents Safety Command at 3-3 and higher with SB01.
 
entropychaser said:
Chicago has used specials since the dawn of time. Beginning in late 1927 CFD began switching from 3-11 running cards to 5--11 cards. The Burlington Fire (1922 ?) ran out the card with a 3-11 and 10 specials. Ken Little was working at Main FAO on 1/21/57 when they hit a 5-11 and 8 specials for the Continental Grain Elevator at 93rd Street and the Calumet River. On the 8th special were 3 engines and 2 squads.
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Speaking of Ken Little

 
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