2/21/23 Brooklyn 4th Alarm Box 235

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seniorofficer said:
Were there any indications that the 1 story was an open extension of the 3 story, or could the wall between have been illegally breached?
The color and intensity of the smoke from the 3 story indicated a heavy fire load for a vacant building.

Also saw a rescue medic wearing a hood and an SCBA. If it were to "hit the fan," do they go in on their own as a team, or does our FAST team call the coordinating?
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Both buildings were (possibly) illegally attached. According to one of the truck lts.
 
Captain784 said:
Why do the Chief's not put the Satellites AND their assigned 2,000 GPM pumper to work at these major fires. Once the chiefs have safely removed the members from the fire building, a Very large caliber stream attack is in order. I worked from time to time in the old Super Pumper system as a fireman back in the 1970s, I know what really large caliber streams can do. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 Retired


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Probably due to rig access. There’s rigs all over the place already set up on a tight one way street.
 
I truly hope the members sit down as a company and watch the videos of some of these multi alarm / protracted incidents. There is so much value and ways to work smarter not harder. Just like the Monday morning quarterbacks, a company can sit in the comfort of the back room and critique themselves or come up with more efficient ways of doing things. The professional, high quality videos often provided by people like “The Majestrium” are a powerful training tool. Case in point: during the 4th on Hewes in Brooklyn yesterday companies were tasked with opening up the ground floor windows on exposure 4. The windows were wide and tall with bars/grates. But on the inside of the windows were sheets of plywood. Members removed the bars/grates in routine fashion but then ran into the plywood on multiple windows. It was painful to watch as the members “busted their asses” trying to remove the plywood which has bounce to it and absorbs blows especially when attacked in the middle. A company sitting in the back room watching these videos can easily come up with better ways to do it next time. In the case of the plywood at 4th: members were trying to jab push the plywood in with 6’hooks. Didn’t work - sometimes if poorly anchored this works but not here. Members tried pounding/ breaching the plywood in with halligans. Although the halligan weighs 10 lbs, the weight is distributed throughout the entire 30” and the striking area on the head is relatively small. A 12 pound sledge hammer (weight is concentrated in the head) would have really done some damage much faster especially if the plywood is attacked in the corners and not in the center where there is considerable bounce. One member resorted to using the pick of the halligan in attempt to chop through the plywood to the point of exhaustion. The tops of these plywood shielded windows was approximately 7-8 feet above the sidewalk. Very difficult to access the top portion. Although one member attempted to utilize the FE saw, working above your head and having to reach out from a ladder or into a window can be very trying. The better tool of choice might have been a chainsaw. Much lighter and a 20” bar gives you better reach. Couple the chain saw with an A frame ladder and it might have made for a true case of working smarter not harder. I am not being critical, I am saying that these days, websites such as these which often provide high quality video ( Thanks Majestrium and others) of our operations allow us to debrief ourselves and discuss at the company level how to work smarter, use various options and tools as a powerful training tool. Stay safe brothers.
 
twoteamtease said:
Probably due to rig access. There’s rigs all over the place already set up on a tight one way street.
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You can see the Satellite at the 33:00 mark on the THEMAJESTIRIUM1 video, its parked off to the side all by its lonesome. Maybe it was spotted to work with TL124/E237 if needed?

Seeing some of the photos from above I wonder what use the heavy-duty monitor would have been on this call, the fencing and gates look like they would have made it pretty difficult to hit the seat of the fire from the street.
 
Capttomo said:
Once again John.....awesome job with the video. Thank for all you do
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WELL, THANKS SO VERY MUCH FOR THE KIND WORDS AND SUPPORT. I HAVE A LIFE LONG PASSION FOR THE FDNY AND WHAT I DO AND ALWAYS HAVE HAD. I RARELY READ OR SEE THE COMMENTS ON HERE BUT I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT VERY, VERY MUCH…..ONCE AGAIN THANKS SO MUCH.

JOSEPH JOHN, “{ JJ }”…..
 
Capttomo said:
I truly hope the members sit down as a company and watch the videos of some of these multi alarm / protracted incidents. There is so much value and ways to work smarter not harder. Just like the Monday morning quarterbacks, a company can sit in the comfort of the back room and critique themselves or come up with more efficient ways of doing things. The professional, high quality videos often provided by people like “The Majestrium” are a powerful training tool. Case in point: during the 4th on Hewes in Brooklyn yesterday companies were tasked with opening up the ground floor windows on exposure 4. The windows were wide and tall with bars/grates. But on the inside of the windows were sheets of plywood. Members removed the bars/grates in routine fashion but then ran into the plywood on multiple windows. It was painful to watch as the members “busted their asses” trying to remove the plywood which has bounce to it and absorbs blows especially when attacked in the middle. A company sitting in the back room watching these videos can easily come up with better ways to do it next time. In the case of the plywood at 4th: members were trying to jab push the plywood in with 6’hooks. Didn’t work - sometimes if poorly anchored this works but not here. Members tried pounding/ breaching the plywood in with halligans. Although the halligan weighs 10 lbs, the weight is distributed throughout the entire 30” and the striking area on the head is relatively small. A 12 pound sledge hammer (weight is concentrated in the head) would have really done some damage much faster especially if the plywood is attacked in the corners and not in the center where there is considerable bounce. One member resorted to using the pick of the halligan in attempt to chop through the plywood to the point of exhaustion. The tops of these plywood shielded windows was approximately 7-8 feet above the sidewalk. Very difficult to access the top portion. Although one member attempted to utilize the FE saw, working above your head and having to reach out from a ladder or into a window can be very trying. The better tool of choice might have been a chainsaw. Much lighter and a 20” bar gives you better reach. Couple the chain saw with an A frame ladder and it might have made for a true case of working smarter not harder. I am not being critical, I am saying that these days, websites such as these which often provide high quality video ( Thanks Majestrium and others) of our operations allow us to debrief ourselves and discuss at the company level how to work smarter, use various options and tools as a powerful training tool. Stay safe brothers.
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ONCE AGAIN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE KIND WORDS. I AGREE WITH YOUR POST. ABOUT TRAINING AND SUCH. IT IS OFTEN THAT I GET MEMBERS TELLING ME THAT THEY OFTEN SPEND TIME WATCHING AND TRAINING WITH MY VIDEO. THE FDNY USES MY VIDEOS VERY OFTEN FOR MANY OTHER PURPOSES. THANKS AGAIN…..
 
THEMAJESTIRIUM1 said:
WELL, THANKS SO VERY MUCH FOR THE KIND WORDS AND SUPPORT. I HAVE A LIFE LONG PASSION FOR THE FDNY AND WHAT I DO AND ALWAYS HAVE HAD. I RARELY READ OR SEE THE COMMENTS ON HERE BUT I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT VERY, VERY MUCH…..ONCE AGAIN THANKS SO MUCH.

JOSEPH JOHN, “{ JJ }”…..
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Hey John: You need to take a little time to read/see the comments from members on this site who much appreciate the effort you put in to video the incidents day or night and all kinds of weather conditions. Your dedication to cover the scene from various angles, to include the fireground audio, and your commentary makes the videos priceless.
Take care and thanks again.
 
Ala117 said:
Hey John: You need to take a little time to read/see the comments from members on this site who much appreciate the effort you put in to video the incidents day or night and all kinds of weather conditions. Your dedication to cover the scene from various angles, to include the fireground audio, and your commentary makes the videos priceless.
Take care and thanks again.
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WELL, THAT SURELY MEANS A LOT TO ME TO HEAR. I WILL LOOK INTO READING THE COMMENTS AND REPLYING BACK FROM NOW ON. I WAS NOT VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS COMMENTS AREA BUT WILL STUDY IT MORE. GLAD YOU ENJOY MY VIDEOS. I DO THIS FOR YOU ALL AND OUR EMERGENCY SERVICES WITH THE PASSION IN MY HEART. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE KIND WORDS AMD SUPPORT…..
 
With every engine being 2000 gpm now and no real water supply issues in 98% of the city unless the manifold or foam is needed the Sattelite Engine usually just becomes another engine to use in the mix......The Rescue Medics gear is structural firefighting gear and they have received additional training to operate in an IDLH environment with the FAST team and at high rise fire incidents.
 
dan said:
With every engine being 2000 gpm now and no real water supply issues in 98% of the city unless the manifold or foam is needed the Sattelite Engine usually just becomes another engine to use in the mix......The Rescue Medics gear is structural firefighting gear and they have received additional training to operate in an IDLH environment with the FAST team and at high rise fire incidents.
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Just a thought, a standard engine company would need multiple lines to feed it to max out its pump at 2000gpm. Unless of course they could get a hard suction on a hydrant and then by luck they deckgun may line up usefully. I forget what NY uses as soft supply but I want to say somewhere around 3.5 or 4 inch which is no where near capable of 2000 gpms. The 5 inch my engines carried maxed at 1250.

On the other hand, a sat company, can be supplied by any engine on a good hydrant parked in a advantageous location and dump 1500 to 2000 gpms into the heart of the fire.

Of course this is going to vary with any fireground conditions and bldg type.

The main issue I see is that they are forgotten tools in the box. This is just me but I see them more supplying manifolds for handlines then flowing big water. Chiefs will rearrange the fireground to get a tower in front of the bldg. It shouldn't be too hard to do the same to get a big gun into an advantageous position.
 
seniorofficer said:
Were there any indications that the 1 story was an open extension of the 3 story, or could the wall between have been illegally breached?
The color and intensity of the smoke from the 3 story indicated a heavy fire load for a vacant building.

Also saw a rescue medic wearing a hood and an SCBA. If it were to "hit the fan," do they go in on their own as a team, or does our FAST team call the coordinating?
Click to expand...
The Rescue Medics ideally (if such a word can be used in this context) wait for the FAST to remove the member to a non-IDLH atmosphere. That said there are exceptions and the medics are both equipped and trained for those exceptions. They have structural PPE, SCBA and are Rebreather trained. They regularly operate at fires such as on the floor below at 10-77s. They have also performed in incredibly difficult operations at some of the job's worst fires in recent years starting with the Walton Avenue Fire where they were operating on air in chest high water.

Regarding coordination usually Rescue Medics are organized together under the Rescue Task Force with a HazTac (rescue medic qualified) boss supervising. The HT boss will be the link between them and the FAST.

All of this is in addition to EMS' line unit FAST and HOT buses which are ready to receive a member.
 
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