3/31/24 Brooklyn 5th Alarm / 10-66 Box 0270

[JA290]

The whole dispatcher sending replicators before assigned units is ridiculous but there is a place for it however in my opinion it’s not until later alarms. Especially in Brooklyn where companies are so close to each other there is no reason a relocator is sent before the normally assigned 4th or 5th due truck. Is blatantly obvious when you see certain trucks always relocated for a good job and put on the box immediately. Companies relocated from the same area and all put on the box while companies get relocated to the relocated companies area. All while the 4th and 5th due trucks sit in quarters. There’s too much discretion. A relocation is meant to protect the area that the job is in while the companies assigned there can’t.

For almost 3 years now, when a relocated company goes 10-8, and the incident escalates, or there’s a special call for additional units, the CAD recommends the relocated unit, based on the premise of being the nearest available unit to the ongoing incident.

That change was instituted because that’s what operations wanted. Theres no “discretion” being used, and nothing blatant about who gets relocated.
We try to do Like unit for like unit. Dont empty a double house, And close the RespnseNeighborhood by relocating the least amount of companies in the quickest amount of time
Of course, like with anything, fire activity, who’s oos, relocated, where the fire is, and alarm level, you’ll sometimes get some unusual relocations. (Must fills, do not relocates, old apparatus etc)

 

[IRONLUNG]

The whole dispatcher sending replicators before assigned units is ridiculous but there is a place for it however in my opinion it’s not until later alarms. Especially in Brooklyn where companies are so close to each other there is no reason a relocator is sent before the normally assigned 4th or 5th due truck. Is blatantly obvious when you see certain trucks always relocated for a good job and put on the box immediately. Companies relocated from the same area and all put on the box while companies get relocated to the relocated companies area. All while the 4th and 5th due trucks sit in quarters. There’s too much discretion. A relocation is meant to protect the area that the job is in while the companies assigned there can’t.

hard to justify sending a company thats farther away, when a relocated company is in the 1st or 2nd dues area.

 

[tommyhal&oat]

For almost 3 years now, when a relocated company goes 10-8, and the incident escalates, or there’s a special call for additional units, the CAD recommends the relocated unit, based on the premise of being the nearest available unit to the ongoing incident.

That change was instituted because that’s what operations wanted. Theres no “discretion” being used, and nothing blatant about who gets relocated.
We try to do Like unit for like unit. Dont empty a double house, And close the RespnseNeighborhood by relocating the least amount of companies in the quickest amount of time
Of course, like with anything, fire activity, who’s oos, relocated, where the fire is, and alarm level, you’ll sometimes get some unusual relocations. (Must fills, do not relocates, old apparatus etc)

I think the "discretion" he is talking about is seeing the same units being relocated and then sent to the job. For example, it's no secret that 111 is being relocated often and then sent into the job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's up to the dispatcher who decides the relocating company, right?

There are some instances where at an All Hands the chief requests a couple extra trucks, and at times one of those is a relocator. I think in that instance must be frustrating, because as a 4th or 5th due truck in the area, you would be used to getting sent into the job, although now relocators are coming in and taking away some of that work. As mentioned before, one of those things where it's great for the relocators but sucks for those companies right on the edge.

 

[Dad2]

I think the "discretion" he is talking about is seeing the same units being relocated and then sent to the job. For example, it's no secret that 111 is being relocated often and then sent into the job. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's up to the dispatcher who decides the relocating company, right?

There are some instances where at an All Hands the chief requests a couple extra trucks, and at times one of those is a relocator. I think in that instance must be frustrating, because as a 4th or 5th due truck in the area, you would be used to getting sent into the job, although now relocators are coming in and taking away some of that work. As mentioned before, one of those things where it's great for the relocators but sucks for those companies right on the edge.

That’s exactly it. 111, 124, 103, always relocating and right into the job even when it’s only been a minute or 2 since the 1075 and they ask for an extra truck and there’s no way they are closer than the next truck on the ticket

 

[FDNYSTATENISLAND]

That’s exactly it. 111, 124, 103, always relocating and right into the job even when it’s only been a minute or 2 since the 1075 and they ask for an extra truck and there’s no way they are closer than the next truck on the ticket

Wasn’t 111 asking to be relocated more? For these reasons perhaps.

 

[fdhistorian]

That’s exactly it. 111, 124, 103, always relocating and right into the job even when it’s only been a minute or 2 since the 1075 and they ask for an extra truck and there’s no way they are closer than the next truck on the ticket

Most GPS based CAD programs give companies that are on the air a 20 to 60 second response time advantage because their turn out time is zero.
This translates to approximately 1/2 mile less travel time.
If the CAD sees two companies, one in the firehouse and the other sitting outside on the ramp of the same firehouse but 'on the air', it will choose the 'on the air' company over the one inside that has to turn out.

 

[Extra One & One]

The whole “who should respond to a call?” will come to a rest once AVL is installed on the apparatus. Then dispatchers will be able to see the exact location of units. Of course to integrate that into any dispatch system is not as easy as it may seem. A lot of technology to have it seamlessly integrated and easily used.

 

[Elmerj]

I could be wrong but I thought the Fire Apparatus already had AVL installed.

 

[Dad2]

Regardless the alarm should remain the same through the 2nd alarm. If we are using relocated companies the relocate should be generated another way and not simply who the dispatcher wants to send

 

[Signal73]

So basically if example L-111 gets a job
Then there's a list of companies who goes to them on a relocate.
First up is L-124 if not available then L-120 next is L-119

But what if all those companies are available IE on another run or OOS Then what do you do?

What if the 4th company that is on the list is L-146 and they have old rig and can't relocate Then what?

What if there is a job a block away from L-111 and the relocator is at the quarters of L-111 and the IC needs a TL or a ladder company ASAP

But certain people don't want that relocator going to a job so instead they call for a TL that's 10 mins or more away at their fire house because they are next on the ticket they have to go and there is a loss of life.

What's going to happen when people question why that company a block away wasn't called in stead they had to wait for the one 10 or more mins away

 

[JA290]

Regardless the alarm should remain the same through the 2nd alarm. If we are using relocated companies the relocate should be generated another way and not simply who the dispatcher wants to send

Once again; it’s not who we want to send, we’re going by what’s being recommended by the CAD, based on what fire operations wants. If operations wants us to not use the relocators, then they’ll tell the BOC bosses and that’s what we’ll do.
As for who’s being relocated, no one is calling up the office to volunteer. But you’re more than welcome to slide into my DM’s with where you work, and I’ll be happy to use your company instead of 111,124 etc providing it makes sense.

 

[JA290]

Wasn’t 111 asking to be relocated more? For these reasons perhaps.

They have not asked.

 

[Signal73]

As if Mr. 290 hasn't done enough explaining from the inside here is a link for a multiple in Brooklyn that Mr. 312 does a good job explaining & giving examples.

1/14/24 Brooklyn 2nd Alarm Box 1290

I personally do not understand how anybody can argue for anything other than "the closest unit to the call gets the run". Yes, I'm sure it sucks if you're in quarters and a multiple alarm goes out near you and you miss out while a relocator gets the job, but if they're closer, they're closer...

www.nycfire.net

 

[bxengine]

Once again; it’s not who we want to send, we’re going by what’s being recommended by the CAD, based on what fire operations wants. If operations wants us to not use the relocators, then they’ll tell the BOC bosses and that’s what we’ll do.
As for who’s being relocated, no one is calling up the office to volunteer. But you’re more than welcome to slide into my DM’s with where you work, and I’ll be happy to use your company instead of 111,124 etc providing it makes sense.

Who do i gotta bribe to never get relocated ever again? Lol

 

[JA290]

Who do i gotta bribe to never get relocated ever again? Lol

that’s a more normal request. lol. Not to be moved, LOL.

 

[Dad2]

So basically if example L-111 gets a job
Then there's a list of companies who goes to them on a relocate.
First up is L-124 if not available then L-120 next is L-119

But what if all those companies are available IE on another run or OOS Then what do you do?

What if the 4th company that is on the list is L-146 and they have old rig and can't relocate Then what?

What if there is a job a block away from L-111 and the relocator is at the quarters of L-111 and the IC needs a TL or a ladder company ASAP

But certain people don't want that relocator going to a job so instead they call for a TL that's 10 mins or more away at their fire house because they are next on the ticket they have to go and there is a loss of life.

What's going to happen when people question why that company a block away wasn't called in stead they had to wait for the one 10 or more mins away

Specifically calling for a TL or special piece of equipment is not related to this topic. We’re talking regular relocators. Let’s be real the only reason operations wanted this change was because certain companies weren’t taking their relocates in so to entice them they made it easier to get to the job. Just rewarding bad behavior

 

[1951truck]

At one point during this fire when they called for an extra TL they had T44/117 assigned, then quickly replaced...

Seemed odd that T44/117 would be the nearest available TL

 

[Extra One & One]

Hang in there JA290. It’s times like this that I am happy to be retired. There are chiefs on the fire ground, chiefs (bosses) in your office, and administrators who all give directions and issue policies and procedures. Then there are many “chiefs” with ideas and opinions. It’s like being a baseball umpire!! No matter what you decide someone will always gripe.

 

[IRONLUNG]

Wasn’t 111 asking to be relocated more? For these reasons perhaps.

yes, they not doing much in their area anymore

 

[Dmu917]

What are you talking about? Assign companies as we wish? Where do you guys come up with some of these things?
That’s a very bold, inflammatory and not true statement.

If you work for the fdny you’re more than welcome to come up to the office and see how things are done. Send me a message to set it up.

I do work for the fdny and would love to come up there and see how its done if the offer is still on the table. Ill knock with my eldows i promise!!!haha