4/30/22 Manhattan 5th Alarm Box 0143

Signal73

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Thank God for the Archives lol

Relief @16:00
E-74
L-162
B-10

Relief @18:00
E-238
L-17
B-49
 

DJ Nat

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Based on the amount of resources why wasn't a 6th alarm transmitted, or even a 7th for relief?
 

Signal73

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Relief @ 21:00
E-34
L-163
B-26

Relief @ 00:00
E-35
L-172
B-8

Relief @03:00
E-65
L-44
B-20

Relief @06:00
E-258
L-119
B-40
 
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FDNY Response Videos

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Based on the amount of resources why wasn't a 6th alarm transmitted, or even a 7th for relief?
New department policy following the 8th alarm in Queens makes it so anything above a 5th is a special call. No more 6, 7th and 8th alarms etc. Why that policy was necessary is a whole different question but well beyond my purview.
 

IRONLUNG

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i department policy following the 8th alarm in Queens makes it so anything above a 5th is a special call. No more 6, 7th and 8th alarms etc. Why that policy was necessary is a whole different question but well beyond my purview.
New department policy following the 8th alarm in Queens makes it so anything above a 5th is a special call. No more 6, 7th and 8th alarms etc. Why that policy was necessary is a whole different question but well beyond my purview.
new? its always been like that not after any recent multiple...WTC was two 5th alarms for both towers....the job gotten away from that in recent years..by the books 5th alarm is highest we go resources wise..
 

FDNY Response Videos

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new? its always been like that not after any recent multiple...WTC was two 5th alarms for both towers....the job gotten away from that in recent years..by the books 5th alarm is highest we go resources wise..
I guess a new rule solidifying the old policy. By any account the fact that they no longer go above a 5th is new for recent times.
 

memorymaster

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Years and years ago, anything beyond a 5th alarm was transmitted as a "boro call" bringing in companies from the other boros. Does anyone remember that? I'm thinking back to the late 50's or early 60's when there was a huge job on Sanford Avenue and Frame Place in Flushing and it went to the aforementioned "boro Call."
 

memorymaster

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I was at the Sanford & Frame job ....several detached, peak roof dwellings in the late evening.....probably around '62 or '63.
I recall my dad and I 'glued' to "Monitor Radio" from Lafayette Radio on Liberty Avenue. Thanks Chief for the update.
 

t123ken

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It used to in the books also that if, for example, an additional engine and ladder were called on an all hands, a subsequent second alarm would only be the balance of the second alarm.
You now hear "a full second alarm" (or third, etc.), which was okay decades ago, but I'm not sure that's officially okay now even though it's done.
 

doneleven

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Memorymaster....I believe you're correct. All the old assignment cards sitting in the housewatch desk drawer only went to a 5th alarm. They included responses to the fire as well as relocations. There were numerous special calls on top of the 5th but I don't recall ever actually hearing a fire officially referred to as a 7th or 8th alarm. Beyond that they'd occasionally transmit a boro call. That involved transmitting a 2nd alarm for a remote location and having those units (engines only, if I recall correctly) actually respond to the original fire. I believe those were more for what were anticipated to be extended operations. Think of the delay in having units respond from say Brooklyn or Queens into Manhattan. An example of that would be the famous Ice Palace on 11th -12 Avenues around 38th - 39th streets. Burned for weeks. I'm not even sure the Telephone Company Fire....Manhattan box 465 in February of 75 was officially classified as a boro call. Just a ton of special calls over the 5th. Someone with a better memory can correct me if I'm wrong on that. As for the special calls being defined as a 2nd alarm....some of that dates back to when O'Hagan had a standing order NOT to transmit a second...especially for a vacant. Ridiculous policy in my view...dispatchers would almost apologetically tell the aide "that will require a 2nd". Different times for sure. Stay safe.
 

entropychaser

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From: Regulations for the Uniformed Force

11.9 Additional Alarms Beyond a Fifth Alarm

11.9.1 After the regular assignments of a street box have been exhausted, additional engine companies may be called by the use of a Simultaneous Call or Borough Call.
11.9.2 The assignments of one alarm box may be called to the location of another box in the borough by means of the Simultaneous Call. Only land engine companies respond or relocate.
11.9.3 The Simultaneous call consists of preliminary signal 9-9 ( Queens used 7-7 at the time); number of the box to which companies shall respond; preliminary signal (2-2 or 3-3) indicative of required assignments; number of the box the assignments of which are called.

11.9.5 The assignments of a street box in one borough may be called to the location of a box in another borough by means of a Borough Call.
11'9'6 The Borough Call consists of appropriate borough preliminary signal; number of the box at the location of the fire; preliminary signal (2-2 or 3-3) indicative of the required assignments; number of the box, of which shall respond. Example: Signal 6-6----156---3-3----239
transmitted on the Brooklyn circuits. The third alarm for Brooklyn Box 239 (engines only with relocations) respond to Manhattan Box 156.

With a Borough Call, it looks like the responding CO picks out which box to use. In Manhattan Box 174, Bowery and Canal Streets at the entrance to the Manhattan Bridge was a favorite. As I recall, it was used for the second Borough Call for the Jamaica Gas Leak Disaster.
 

entropychaser

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The City of Baltimore FD used a dispatch technique somewhat similar to a Simultaneous Call. They simply used an adjacent box.
Baltimore had running assignments up to the sixth alarm. Whenever they "ran out the card" and more help was needed, the Chief would send his aide to a nearby alarm box where he would activate the box and start transmitting additional alarms using its' assignment card (presumably with relocated units).

Examples: Chesapeake Marine Railway Pier 2/17/53 6 alarms Box 18
6 alarms Box 184
6 alarms Box 191

Grocery warehouse 2200 Winchester St. 5/9/59 6 alarms Box 7525
6 alarms Box 7423


Central Pattern Works 1109 E, Pratt St. 7/5/69 6 alarms Box 143 Verbal from Truck 1 returning from a fifth alarm
6 alarms Box 1424 all transmitted in 38 minutes


Federal Tin Factory Charles & Barre Streets 5/7/72 6 alarms Box 524
1 alarm Box 528
4 alarms Box 61
 
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