6/20/24 Bronx 4th Alarm Box 2297

seniorofficer

seniorofficer

Joined
Feb 7, 2012
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244
Capttomo said:
Hahah.
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Captain784 said:
I too believe that a Hydrant Hook Up could have been made in front of, or over the illegally parked. BUT if you park on a hydrant you deserve to pay the price. It is very important to get protective hoselines in place at advanced fire like this. The 6th Engine on the run card, can indeed be stretching protective hoseline for an advanced fire that is vital for exposure control. Remember the 6th Engine, responded on the 2nd alarm, on this fire that went to a 4th Alarm. I would add one more idea. When you hook to the 4 1/2" outlet on a hydrant at serious fire you should place a 2 1/2" gate valve or better yet a 2 1/2" "Y" gate valve on the other outlet of the hydrant. This allows you to get maximum flow out of the hydrant by
augmenting the supply to the pump if needed. These are great FDNY units with experienced members. Instead of finding fault with minor things learn from what we see. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
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Sorry Capt. Bob, If you want someone to "pay the price," the right and professional way is in the issuance of a summons - which I tried, but it was shot down to make these situations a moving violation with a mandatory traffic court appearance.
 
68jk09

68jk09

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^^^^ Having a "Blocking a Hydrant" Summons being a mandatory Court appearance (especially if there is a Fire) would be a good addition......that Summons may still be disregarded by the "recipient" but it would evolve into a more serious Warrant down the road......another often occurring issue was a vehicle in the Fire Zone ....the normal Summons worded about parking in the Fire Zone is pretty basic / lenient however if the section "Obstructing The Entrance or Exit of a Fire Station" is used it is (or at least was back in when I was still working ) an automatic Court Appearance.....another one for a vehicle that does not stop when warned & goes around a Rig at an operation or backing into the FH if it is on a Two way Street can be increased if the vehicle in doing so "Fails To Stay To the Right Of the Yellow Line".
 
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Captain784

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Brothers you are right the best way is to make blocking a fire hydrant (Or Firehouse) a more serious breach of the law is indeed making it a moving violation. But that does not help you when you need a hydrant, and it is FULLY blocked near a serious fire. In fact, peoples commonly ignore even moving violations and the Police are too busy to follow up. At this fire I know a supply line could have been stretched with breaking the window, but that is not the point. We should not be delayed in hooking up to hydrants by illegally parked cars. Perhaps having the NYPD tow truck respond to serious fires would be a good idea. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired.
 
Chicken Wing Man

Chicken Wing Man

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Dec 19, 2020
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seniorofficer said:
At the 18:30 mark:
That hydrant supply line line could have easily been hooked to that hydrant AROUND the car. There was absolutely no urgency to get a protective line into operation from that engine, who was the SIXTH engine on the assignment. Totally unprofessional and an embarrassment, considering who the company was.
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Respectfully disagree. Because of the length of the front connection hose it appears that the hose may not have been long enough to go around the front of the car. Several factors could have gone into the decision to go through the window.
 
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flounder8545

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Feb 24, 2023
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Sorry Chicken Wing; That chauffeur made a bush league move. Very one dimensional thinking. Nothing saying you have to use the front suction. A better move would have been to disconnect from the front intake, and hook to the officers side gated 6" inlet, which would have allowed another 10 ft. or so of the 35 footer to be available. He also could have moved the rig, which eventually happened. One more thing, almost every video I see involving tower ladder ops. is that most companies use the 1-3/8" tip. you have the capability of flowing 1200gpms with a 2" tip. water supply is usually not an issue. Anytime I was pumping to a TL, I always told the bucket guys to at least use the 1-3/4" tip, if not the 2". Just my 2 pennies.
 
JohnnyGage

JohnnyGage

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Apr 23, 2018
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Captain784 said:
Brothers you are right the best way is to make blocking a fire hydrant (Or Firehouse) a more serious breach of the law is indeed making it a moving violation. But that does not help you when you need a hydrant, and it is FULLY blocked near a serious fire. In fact, peoples commonly ignore even moving violations and the Police are too busy to follow up. At this fire I know a supply line could have been stretched with breaking the window, but that is not the point. We should not be delayed in hooking up to hydrants by illegally parked cars. Perhaps having the NYPD tow truck respond to serious fires would be a good idea. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired.
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Love ya Cap, but you're not making sense, RE: not be delayed but wait for a PD tow truck. Every ECC must know the 3 ways to hook up to an obstructed highway. Smashing windows is not one...suppose glass gets in his eye, then what?...The FDNY is the worlds best trained fire dept through practice and experience, we should not stoop to cowboy "watch me" antics. In all do respect, what would you have done if he was your ECC?
 
JohnnyGage

JohnnyGage

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Darrell said:
What are the three ways?
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  1. 10-foot soft suction – This 3 ½” soft suction has 4 ½” couplings, so it can be connected directly to a hydrant. It can be bent but will straighten when charged with water and is very difficult to kink. At 10 feet long, it is the shortest hydrant connection and requires accurate positioning close to the hydrant.
  2. 35-foot soft connection – This 5” hose is yellow and has 4 ½” couplings for direct connection to a hydrant. It is 35 feet long, so it allows for some distance from the hydrant and provides the ability to maneuver around obstructions.
  3. 3 ½” hose – Standard 50-foot lengths of 3 ½” hose can be used to hook up to a hydrant through the use of a specialized hydrant connection fitting (4 ½” to 3” double female). There is no limit on the number of lengths that can be used, so this option allows for the greatest flexibility, but provides the least water flow.
    1. If increased water supply is anticipated, the ECC may consider attaching a 2 ½” single gate to the 2 ½” outlet of the hydrant before the hydrant is initially opened for water supply. This will make it possible to later self-augment if the need for elevated water flow arises. If needed, a second supply hose can be connected to this single gate, which can be opened to further supply the engine apparatus. This maximizes the water supply from a single hydrant.
 
seniorofficer

seniorofficer

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Feb 7, 2012
Messages
244
NOBODY here has even considered the possibility that the ECC could have simply put the engine in reverse [here comes the sarcasm] (there are provisions to do that, especially when getting back into quarters) and backed up about 10 feet, which would have given him the hose needed to connect to the hydrant. Again, he was the 6th engine in - what was done, and how many lines were able to be stretched beforehand by the five that arrived before him that made this procedure so critical??
Again, it was an "unoccupied" taxpayer fire discovered at sunrise by DUNKIN employees. Where was the confirmed life hazard at the time of arrival of the 6th engine?
 
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seniorofficer

seniorofficer

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Feb 7, 2012
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244
RetBxLt said:
Aerials are not to position in front at a taxpayer fire to leave room for TL's. Has FF Procedures changed since I retired?
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Have they changed the priority for ladders to the roof of a taxpayer; and if members initially are busy, does that preclude the LCC from throwing the aerial to the roof to get the saw to the roof?
 
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RetBxLt

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Jun 10, 2020
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RES551CUE said:
Truck gets the address. That's how I've always played.
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Yes. Truck always gets the front. Aerial's usually take a side street if possible on a taxpayer to leave room for TL's for defensive operations later. Maybe it was one of those unwritten things I learned from the guys years ago. 1 story taxpayers are easily reachable with portable ladders. Also can define the fire building by placing a portable at each fire wall and giving the brothers 2 means of egress.
 
3

3511

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This harkens back to a policy in the 18th battalion in the 1950s. There were four single engine companies in the battalion, 42,45,48,96, but only two ladder companies, 27 and 38. As often assigned higher on the run card, the trucks would respond ahead of their partner engines, 46 or 88, to get better access to the fire building. I did not observe this in other Bronx battalions, where the engine always went first no matter who was assigned where on the run card.

Surely in Brooklyn, where there are so many single-engine companies to this day, this policy must have or does still apply?
 
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Captain784

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Jul 20, 2022
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I never said wait for a NYPD Tow Truck to move the car on a hydrant, to allow an engine to hook up to a hydrant. The idea behind the NYPD Tow truck responding is to remove the car for Impounding AFTER the fire. If this was done people would get the message not to park on a Hydrant.
I have over 50 years of firefighting experience in both FDNY and Volunteer Fire Departments. I never had to break a window or push a car on a hydrant out of the way, to hook up to a hydrant. I always worked around a car on a hydrant with all the options available to a good M.P.O./Engine Company Chauffeur. I have also used FDNY 10-70 & Inline pumping at times. Summons don't work often because there is little enforcement if the summons is not paid. As for giving the front of the building to the truck company it is still the best policy. A truck has a very limited number of feet before the main aerial or Tower Ladder can no longer reach the fire building and anyone trapped at a window or on the roof. The Engine Company has enough hose to reach the fire even from the next block if needed. But remember the fact that "More Lives are Saved by a properly positioned hoseline, than by any other way." With good firefighting both engine and truck operations are possible. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
 
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IRONLUNG

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Aug 10, 2016
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2 sites now this guy is going on with this hydrant connections, summer and retired for idk how long....
 
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