7/10/09 Queens Box 8444 - 3rd Alarm
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guitarman314 said:
That's what happens when it's put in by a Universal Call Taker. They can't put in Throggs Neck Bridge. They have to put in the nearest cross streets, and we have to figure it out from the comments of the incident. Happens all the time with the bridges over there. Whitestone Expy and 3rd Avenue is the Queens side of the Whitestone, while the Hutch and Senger Place is the Bronx side. Their CAD is unable to put certain locations in. Sorry, I don't have a rundown for this one, I was just getting out of work when it came in.
I"d like to Thank "efd274" for his rundown of this job. I was out of town and had no idea of what was going on. When I came back I was hearing about a job on the bridge. Anyway, thanks guy for that rundown, it explained everything.
On another subject, I consider myself a pretty seasoned buff. But I really never knew how those companies would know which box to respond to on those very large bridges. Sometimes I"ve seen as many as a dozen different boxes along the roadway of the bridge. I would like to say "Thank You" to G-Man. I never knew about boxes given locations by L.P.s (I assume light pole numbers).
On another subject, I consider myself a pretty seasoned buff. But I really never knew how those companies would know which box to respond to on those very large bridges. Sometimes I"ve seen as many as a dozen different boxes along the roadway of the bridge. I would like to say "Thank You" to G-Man. I never knew about boxes given locations by L.P.s (I assume light pole numbers).
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Looks like Rescue 3 was using the 2002 Freightliner/American LaFrance (ex-R-6) "Spirit of Oklahoma" yesterday. 
vbcapt, Yes, mostly all the major bridges in NYC have either Pull Boxes or ERS Boxes. For example, riding along the TriBoro Bridge (I think it is now called the RFK Bridge ? ? ? ), you may see four to six boxes. Some on each side at various points along the 1/2 mile or mile stretch of roadway. I think thats why giving units light pole numbers helps them locate which box is activated on the bridge.
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STATUS OF BRIDGE:
Two lanes into the Bronx did not reopen until after 6:00 p.m. on Friday. In addition, the Bronx-bound Cross Island Parkway ramp has been closed for safety reasons to avoid a hazardous merge around the closed lane. One lane will remain closed into the Bronx indefinitely and no trucks will be allowed over the northbound side.
The Cross Island Parkway's northbound ramp that connects to the bridge is shut for the weekend.
All trucks should stay off the Clear View Expressway, officials said. If any trucks inadvertently get on, they will be diverted at Willets Point
Two lanes into the Bronx did not reopen until after 6:00 p.m. on Friday. In addition, the Bronx-bound Cross Island Parkway ramp has been closed for safety reasons to avoid a hazardous merge around the closed lane. One lane will remain closed into the Bronx indefinitely and no trucks will be allowed over the northbound side.
The Cross Island Parkway's northbound ramp that connects to the bridge is shut for the weekend.
All trucks should stay off the Clear View Expressway, officials said. If any trucks inadvertently get on, they will be diverted at Willets Point
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efd274 said:
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The recent Throgs Neck Bridge fire clearly illustrates how important marine operations are. Getting water on the fire was very difficult using land apparatus and it took close to an hour before Marine 6 was able to go into operation. Access to the fire by land was not only difficult, it had many elements of danger for FDNY members.
It would seem a review of actual operations that were undertaken that day would be most beneficial and off the top of my head should include the following:
1. FDNY should receive from the responsible agency (e.g. MTA - parent agency of TBTA) a copy of the structural calculations that should be submitted by the Contractor performing the work on the bridge for the scaffolding and the bearing capacity including the loading of materials (this would be the "dead" load on the structure - loading of the members and their equipment would be the "live" load). This information, to be supplied by the contractor (and "signed off" on by a licensed P.E. with structural engineering expertise) should be made a part of the contract requirements - this would enable the FDNY to assess the risk of putting members down on the scaffolding etc. There could be a sign-off required by FDNY (just like or similar to a DEC permit) before the contractor is allowed to commence work. This information could become part of the CIDS information for the bridge while construction is in effect.
The actual mechanics of this procedure would have to be fine tuned and the information would have to be put into the CIDS data bank in a timely fashion for it to be of any value.
2. The DC or BC requested two SOC support trucks with special saws. (Not exactly sure what saws they were but they are on the archive tape). However two SOC support units contacted by the Queens dispatcher indicated that they didn't carry these saws. Subsequently the Chief cancelled the two SOC units. The question is multiplicative: (a)should this be normal equipment for SOCS to carry (b) do Rescues or Squads carry these saws - I think everybody gets the idea as this could be very iterative.
3. Should training exercises for future fires of this nature be undertaken (say a simulation on a Sunday morning) similar to other disaster scenarios.
Am going to post this under the Throgs Neck Bridge fire thread as well.
Would really like to hear thoughts of any actual FDNY firefighters as well!
It would seem a review of actual operations that were undertaken that day would be most beneficial and off the top of my head should include the following:
1. FDNY should receive from the responsible agency (e.g. MTA - parent agency of TBTA) a copy of the structural calculations that should be submitted by the Contractor performing the work on the bridge for the scaffolding and the bearing capacity including the loading of materials (this would be the "dead" load on the structure - loading of the members and their equipment would be the "live" load). This information, to be supplied by the contractor (and "signed off" on by a licensed P.E. with structural engineering expertise) should be made a part of the contract requirements - this would enable the FDNY to assess the risk of putting members down on the scaffolding etc. There could be a sign-off required by FDNY (just like or similar to a DEC permit) before the contractor is allowed to commence work. This information could become part of the CIDS information for the bridge while construction is in effect.
The actual mechanics of this procedure would have to be fine tuned and the information would have to be put into the CIDS data bank in a timely fashion for it to be of any value.
2. The DC or BC requested two SOC support trucks with special saws. (Not exactly sure what saws they were but they are on the archive tape). However two SOC support units contacted by the Queens dispatcher indicated that they didn't carry these saws. Subsequently the Chief cancelled the two SOC units. The question is multiplicative: (a)should this be normal equipment for SOCS to carry (b) do Rescues or Squads carry these saws - I think everybody gets the idea as this could be very iterative.
3. Should training exercises for future fires of this nature be undertaken (say a simulation on a Sunday morning) similar to other disaster scenarios.
Am going to post this under the Throgs Neck Bridge fire thread as well.
Would really like to hear thoughts of any actual FDNY firefighters as well!
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A construction worker's blow torch caused the three-alarm blaze that snarled traffic last week on the Throgs Neck Bridge, a spokesman for the city Fire Department said Monday.
The blaze, which is still being investigated, was accidental, spokesman Steve Ritea said.
The fire broke out about 5 a.m. Friday in scaffolding and construction materials beneath the bridge on the Queens side.
Work being performed under the bridge at the time of the blaze is part of a reconstruction project to replace about 140,000 square feet of roadway deck at the Queens approach.
E.E. Cruz & Co. was awarded the $96.7-million roadway deck contract in 2008. The Holmdel, N.J., company subcontracted to Imperial Iron Works of the Bronx for the work scheduled the day of the fire, MTA Bridges and Tunnels spokeswoman Joyce Mulvaney said>>>
The blaze, which is still being investigated, was accidental, spokesman Steve Ritea said.
The fire broke out about 5 a.m. Friday in scaffolding and construction materials beneath the bridge on the Queens side.
Work being performed under the bridge at the time of the blaze is part of a reconstruction project to replace about 140,000 square feet of roadway deck at the Queens approach.
E.E. Cruz & Co. was awarded the $96.7-million roadway deck contract in 2008. The Holmdel, N.J., company subcontracted to Imperial Iron Works of the Bronx for the work scheduled the day of the fire, MTA Bridges and Tunnels spokeswoman Joyce Mulvaney said>>>
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EDITORIAL: Throgs Neck Bridge mess shows need for more exit routes7:23 PM EDT, July 15, 2009
Tunnel anyone?
Almost a week after a fire caused the closing of a ramp and a ban on trucks on the Throgs Neck Bridge, traffic thoughts turn to escape routes.
What if we really had to get off the Island? There are too many people, too many cars and too few suspension bridges to accommodate us. Structural damage from the fire started by a construction crew's errant blow torch is likely to cause traffic problems for weeks, if not months.
In getting the Throgs Neck Bridge fully reopened, safety shouldn't be compromised for speed. Until then, state and city transportation departments, along with the MTA, need better plans to keep traffic moving in northern Nassau and Queens. It was bad enough the past few days, and that's with the usual lighter summer load and the Mets out of town.
Not only is the Throgs Neck undergoing major maintenance, so are the Whitestone and RFK bridges. That's why MTA Bridges and Tunnels president Susan Kupferman is demanding increased scrutiny of safety plans.
The frustration from the traffic snarl will eventually fade. This event, however, should be a reminder to Long Island that there's a long-term solution waiting at the end of that proposed tunnel from Oyster Bay to Rye.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OWN PERSONAL OBSERATION:
Many routes besides the Rye/Oyster Bay bridge have been explored since Gov Rockefeller killed the bridge proposal - including crossings in Shoreham (end of William Floyd Parkway). When I was in college in engineering school I actually worked on the Rye/Oyster Bay Destination study during the summer of 1969. I worked primarily at the Whitestone Bridge since I could get their by bus (Q44) from Queens. We sampled origins and destinations for the TBTA. I don't think anything will happen on a new crossing/tunnel for a long time unless some powerful political people champion the cause. Otherwise the NIMBY'ists prevail - which I perfectly understand. The Rye/OB tunnel was being sponsored by a private realty developer (Vincent Pollimeni?) about a year ago but I haven't heard anything recently. Construction costs would be astronomical now! You see the deck replacement contract where the fire occurred was on the order of $100M and I don't believe that was for the entire bridge. I don't know off the top of my head how much a new one would cost (obviously the length of the Sound being traversed plays a major role). In any event the number would have a B at the end and not an M.
Tunnel anyone?
Almost a week after a fire caused the closing of a ramp and a ban on trucks on the Throgs Neck Bridge, traffic thoughts turn to escape routes.
What if we really had to get off the Island? There are too many people, too many cars and too few suspension bridges to accommodate us. Structural damage from the fire started by a construction crew's errant blow torch is likely to cause traffic problems for weeks, if not months.
In getting the Throgs Neck Bridge fully reopened, safety shouldn't be compromised for speed. Until then, state and city transportation departments, along with the MTA, need better plans to keep traffic moving in northern Nassau and Queens. It was bad enough the past few days, and that's with the usual lighter summer load and the Mets out of town.
Not only is the Throgs Neck undergoing major maintenance, so are the Whitestone and RFK bridges. That's why MTA Bridges and Tunnels president Susan Kupferman is demanding increased scrutiny of safety plans.
The frustration from the traffic snarl will eventually fade. This event, however, should be a reminder to Long Island that there's a long-term solution waiting at the end of that proposed tunnel from Oyster Bay to Rye.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OWN PERSONAL OBSERATION:
Many routes besides the Rye/Oyster Bay bridge have been explored since Gov Rockefeller killed the bridge proposal - including crossings in Shoreham (end of William Floyd Parkway). When I was in college in engineering school I actually worked on the Rye/Oyster Bay Destination study during the summer of 1969. I worked primarily at the Whitestone Bridge since I could get their by bus (Q44) from Queens. We sampled origins and destinations for the TBTA. I don't think anything will happen on a new crossing/tunnel for a long time unless some powerful political people champion the cause. Otherwise the NIMBY'ists prevail - which I perfectly understand. The Rye/OB tunnel was being sponsored by a private realty developer (Vincent Pollimeni?) about a year ago but I haven't heard anything recently. Construction costs would be astronomical now! You see the deck replacement contract where the fire occurred was on the order of $100M and I don't believe that was for the entire bridge. I don't know off the top of my head how much a new one would cost (obviously the length of the Sound being traversed plays a major role). In any event the number would have a B at the end and not an M.
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BTW people often ask why are we still paying tolls (particularly before tolls were used for mass transit purposes)- the original bonds must be paid off by now. True but think of all the maintenance. The original cost of the bridge completed in 1961 was less than the maintenace contract work being done when the fire occurred.
See below:
The Throgs Neck Bridge opened to traffic on January 11, 1961. The bridge's $92 million construction cost was entirely financed by TBTA bonds, and its approach roads were financed under the Federal-aid Interstate highway system. Originally designated I-495 when it was in its planning stages, the bridge received the I-78 designation when it was under construction in December 1958. It did not receive the I-295 designation until 1971.
The following editorial appeared in Newsday on the day the bridge opened:
The $92 million Throgs Neck Bridge, easing the flow of traffic in and out of Long Island, opened this morning, another evidence of the genius of "Big Bob the Builder" Moses. This structure, one of the handsomest suspension spans in the United States, links the Long Island Expressway and Grand Central Parkway with the New England Thruway, offers an alternative route to the New York Thruway, and through the Cross Bronx Expressway will shortly feed into the George Washington Bridge and the New Jersey Turnpike. It will be a blessing to Long Island and a vast relief to the whole metropolitan area. But Moses isn't content to pass one miracle. From the bridge dedication, the distinguished guests proceeded to Flushing Meadow Park to open the headquarters for the 1964 World's Fair, another Moses enterprise. The man is phenomenal. Long Island, where he started in the parkway business, is mighty proud to claim him, a resident and doer of good works.
During 1962, its first full year of operation, the Throgs Neck Bridge carried approximately 63,000 vehicles per day. At the time, it was expected to take 16 million vehicles away from the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge. However, instead of relieving traffic, the new span ultimately increased traffic from the Bronx and points north to Queens and Long Island.
See below:
The Throgs Neck Bridge opened to traffic on January 11, 1961. The bridge's $92 million construction cost was entirely financed by TBTA bonds, and its approach roads were financed under the Federal-aid Interstate highway system. Originally designated I-495 when it was in its planning stages, the bridge received the I-78 designation when it was under construction in December 1958. It did not receive the I-295 designation until 1971.
The following editorial appeared in Newsday on the day the bridge opened:
The $92 million Throgs Neck Bridge, easing the flow of traffic in and out of Long Island, opened this morning, another evidence of the genius of "Big Bob the Builder" Moses. This structure, one of the handsomest suspension spans in the United States, links the Long Island Expressway and Grand Central Parkway with the New England Thruway, offers an alternative route to the New York Thruway, and through the Cross Bronx Expressway will shortly feed into the George Washington Bridge and the New Jersey Turnpike. It will be a blessing to Long Island and a vast relief to the whole metropolitan area. But Moses isn't content to pass one miracle. From the bridge dedication, the distinguished guests proceeded to Flushing Meadow Park to open the headquarters for the 1964 World's Fair, another Moses enterprise. The man is phenomenal. Long Island, where he started in the parkway business, is mighty proud to claim him, a resident and doer of good works.
During 1962, its first full year of operation, the Throgs Neck Bridge carried approximately 63,000 vehicles per day. At the time, it was expected to take 16 million vehicles away from the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge. However, instead of relieving traffic, the new span ultimately increased traffic from the Bronx and points north to Queens and Long Island.
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Great information on the bridge. Thie latest proposals , from the private sector are tunnels from Oyster Bay to Try , and /or from the Sunken meadow Parkway to the mainland. the technology is available to drill a tunnel - the equipment was perfected on the Chunnel linking the UK and France. And if you can get France to agree to something, why can;t we get NY politicians to agree. (Oops, i opened up a can of worms!)efd274 said:
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On the last post I couldn't correct Tye to Rye for Rye, NY.