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7/18/18 HUDSON YARDS FIREHOUSE
- Thread starter guitarman314
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The outrage comes after the first big incident with loss of life. Just pray it is not any members!
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My dad was detailed a few times to 26 and he related how on some nearby class 3's the Officer would start walking and the 3 or 4 back step members would walk carrying rolled-ups as the MPO tried to eventually get the rig down the street.
Read it and weep.
www.nytimes.com
Amazon’s Tax Breaks and Incentives Were Big. Hudson Yards’ Are Bigger. (Published 2019)
New York was riveted by a debate over incentives offered to Amazon to build a headquarters. But Hudson Yards, the huge office and luxury residential development in Manhattan, has received far more.
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68jk09 said:
Interesting that this should appear in Bloomberg media since it was the Bloomberg administration that should have foreseen and planned for the need for additional fire, police and EMS coverage for this new city-within-a-city. Disgraceful.
Firefighters union slams lack of firehouse in Hudson Yards
The head of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the 20,000-member union that represents city firefighters, reiterated his concerns that Hudson Yards, a neighborhood projected to have a population larger than many American cities, has no dedicated firehouse. Gerard Fitzgerald, president of…
www.crainsnewyork.com
Firefighters union slams lack of firehouse in Hudson Yards
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Wonder what the first calls for E34/TL21 will be in Hudson Yards after today?s official opening. They seem First Due? Even MORE EMS for E34 with 55,000 people per day expected.
manhattan said:
Comment by Reader in above listed piece:
Edward C. Greenberg Straighttalklocal ? 13 hours ago
Most calls to fire fighters in NYC do not involve fires but rather accidents, medical emergencies etc. If I am incorrect I welcome being corrected.
There are fewer fires in a city of 8.6 million in 2018 than there were 100 years ago in a city with 1/2 the population.
80% of all calls to the FDNY are for emergencies unrelated to fires. 3% are to fight fires. There were 41,000 fires in NYC in 2017.
[Emphasis (bold) mine, jw ]
I'm just Guessing - but I Think the 80 - 3% Remark is Incorrect, ???
Why would I care if "Most calls to fire fighters in NYC do not involve fires but rather accidents, medical emergencies etc"? If I need critical help, I need critical help immediately and don't really care who's there when I need them as long as they're properly trained, equipped, led and drilled, and no one beats FDNY, NYC EMS and NYPD. How many additional cops have been assigned to the 10 and MTS Precincts, CRG, CTB and other units for coverage of this new "city-within-a-city"? How many additional EMT's have been assigned to Station 7? How many additional companies have been formed for FDNY coverage?
Sorry, but why would anyone with half an ounce of sense be concerned with how many of which types of calls FD responds to?
Not to be cynical, but might this be the thought of someone connected to the developers?
If I've misread the point of that post, I apologize.
Sorry, but why would anyone with half an ounce of sense be concerned with how many of which types of calls FD responds to?
Not to be cynical, but might this be the thought of someone connected to the developers?
If I've misread the point of that post, I apologize.
manhattan said:
An interesting comparison.
If Hudson Yards ONLY were a city in Connecticut, it would be the states SIXTEENTH (16th) LARGEST CITY.
I would also guess that population density has a huge effect on required city services whether it be police, fire, ems, sanitation, schools, mass transit, and hospitals.
Of course Hudson Yards Development does NOT count a place like Long Island City (Queens), which is another newly created city within a city. From the FDR Drive in Manhattan, across the East River reminds me of the view as you enter downtown Boston.
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Back in the old days when ISO would calculate the number of engine and truck companies needed in an area due to fire load and life safety calculation. My best guesstimate would be 4 engines and at least 2 but likely 3 truck companies would be needed just for the Hudson Yard Project. Of course fire suppression systems and such could take away from that but that is only for fire. Now the department attends tons of other emergencies, the largest being EMS. My guess is that it will keep 3 medic units occupied 24/7. Thoughts?
'Of course fire suppression systems and such could take away from that but that is only for fire' CFDMarshal
Good Point. While Fire Suppression, Const. Design & Materials development have certainly dramatically impacted the nature/frequency of Bldg. Fires in the last '100 Years'; We All Know - Sprinklers are only effective when they are Operational,
and even then; certain Types/Volume of Fire can overcome sprinklers.
Certain more Modern Construction developments/materials create more hazards than they off-set.
As to where & when/ how often Large-Scale Fires will occur is Mostly unknown. Of Course, the Worst-Case Scenario being 2 or more Large Working Fires in a relatively small area at roughly the same time. That being a completely-predictable likelihood in Manhattan or any other NYC Neighborhood.
The Solution is elementary: More Fire Service Protection in more heavily-developed and populated areas.
While the City bemoans the Financial Strain of Improving Fire Service - there is apparently no such concern in Writing-Off Billions of Tax-Breaks to enormously wealthy R.E./Development Corporations.
Good Point. While Fire Suppression, Const. Design & Materials development have certainly dramatically impacted the nature/frequency of Bldg. Fires in the last '100 Years'; We All Know - Sprinklers are only effective when they are Operational,
and even then; certain Types/Volume of Fire can overcome sprinklers.
Certain more Modern Construction developments/materials create more hazards than they off-set.
As to where & when/ how often Large-Scale Fires will occur is Mostly unknown. Of Course, the Worst-Case Scenario being 2 or more Large Working Fires in a relatively small area at roughly the same time. That being a completely-predictable likelihood in Manhattan or any other NYC Neighborhood.
The Solution is elementary: More Fire Service Protection in more heavily-developed and populated areas.
While the City bemoans the Financial Strain of Improving Fire Service - there is apparently no such concern in Writing-Off Billions of Tax-Breaks to enormously wealthy R.E./Development Corporations.
In 1990, NYC's population was 7.3 million. NYC's population grew to over 8.6 million as of 2017 - and it continues to grow. How many fire companies have been added since 1990 while the city has seen an increase of over 1.3 million people? 109 companies had 4000 to 7000-plus runs last year (88 engines and 21 trucks).
An easy way out is: relocate an engine to Rescue 1 as an additional unit or if space does not allow as the ONLY unit and locate Rescue 1 elsewhere for the time being until a new Rescue 1 station can be realized . Just my hunch of what an easy way out might look like.
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From the above referenced article:manhattan said:Firefighters union slams lack of firehouse in Hudson Yards
The head of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the 20,000-member union that represents city firefighters, reiterated his concerns that Hudson Yards, a neighborhood projected to have a population larger than many American cities, has no dedicated firehouse. Gerard Fitzgerald, president of…
Firefighters union slams lack of firehouse in Hudson Yards
Firefighters union slams lack of firehouse in Hudson Yards
The head of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the 20,000-member union that represents city firefighters, reiterated his concerns that Hudson Yards, a neighborhood projected to have a population larger than many American cities, has no dedicated firehouse. Gerard Fitzgerald, president of…
www.crainsnewyork.com
"The FDNY spokesman said such a facility is being contemplated, but at a point in the future he couldn't specify."
"The issue the union is raising is something we extensively outlined last year in a study on the Hudson Yards Special District," the spokesman said. "Our analysis showed that, long term, we expect that as development continues in the district we will need to have additional resources on the West Side. Thus, we have begun working with the mayor's office to begin the process of finding space on the West Side for new department facilities and resources."
The initial study was scoped as follows:
DGEIS (Draft Generic Environmental Impact Statement)
Task 3. Community Facilities and Services This chapter of the DGEIS will evaluate the effect on community services due to the development that would be allowed with the Proposed Action, including effects on police and fire protection, public schools, outpatient and emergency health care facilities, libraries, and publicly funded day care facilities. Particular attention will be given to the need for additional public school capacity. The individual catchment areas for each service provider will serve as the study area boundaries for these analyses. The Community Facilities and Services section of the DGEIS will:
? Develop an inventory of existing public schools, libraries, outpatient and emergency health care service facilities, public day care centers, police precincts, and fire stations, including emergency medical services, located in the study area. This will be accomplished via phone interviews and/or written communication with department representatives, school officials, and local medical service providers. Additionally, field checks will be performed and a map of all community facilities will be created.
Final Scoping Document
? Identify any direct or indirect impacts to the aforementioned community facilities, following the CEQR Technical Manual methodology. As the Proposed Action would result in development which would exceed the CEQR Technical Manual 100-residential unit screening threshold, potential indirect effects will be evaluated. Preliminary thresholds for the need for detailed analyses are as follows:
? Fire Protection: Generally, an assessment of fire protective services is included only if the Proposed Action would affect the physical operations of, or access to and from, a station house. Although the CEQR Technical Manual suggests that a detailed analysis of fire protection services is generally conducted only in the case of direct impacts on facilities, the nature and scope of the Proposed Action in this case warrants an examination of potential impacts on service delivery.
The study report result is excerpted below:
3. Community Facilities and Services
Population growth expected as a result of the Proposed Action could have a significant impact on firefighting services in the area. The Proposed Action would require new elementary and intermediate school capacity serving the Project Area. The Proposed Action is expected to increase the number of children eligible for publicly funded day care, which could have a significant adverse impact on local publicly funded day care centers. The Proposed Action would increase the demand for services provided by public or publicly funded community facilities. It is anticipated that in 2010 the No. 7 Subway Extension, the Convention Center Expansion, the Multi-Use Facility, and a small portion of the commercial and residential development, with a net increase in residential development of approximately 844 dwelling units anticipated with the rezoning, would be finished and operating. It is conservatively assumed that the redevelopment of the Project Area would be substantially complete by 2025, including the new open space, an increment of approximately 9,899 additional dwelling units, and about 27 million square feet of commercial, retail, and hotel space. In addition, the Proposed Action could allow up to 192low- to moderate-income housing units in 2010 (or 22.75 percent of the total new housing units) and up to 1,368 additional low- to moderate-income units (or 15.11 percent of total new units) by 2025.
Fire?While the Proposed Action is not expected to displace existing fire station houses, the new worker, residential, and visitor populations expected as a result of the Proposed Action could have a significant impact on firefighting services in the area in both 2010 and 2025. The Proposed Action has been reviewed for potential impacts on fire protection services, and the New York City Fire Department (FDNY) believes it would need additional resources, including a new firehouse, to continue to provide adequate fire protection with the Proposed Action.
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