9/14/22 Queens 10-75 Box 3696

U

UnitWithTheUrgent

Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
4,320
Address: 198-35 Horace Harding Expy at Hollis Ct Blvd.

Fire in a 1 story 100x200 class 2 supermarket

Phone Alarm - Reporting smoke from The Food Emporium - 01:10

E-299: 10-75 - Medium smoke condition in a 1 story supermarket - 01:12

TL-160 FAST

B-53: 1 L/S/O - You can return the special units - 01:19

D-14: AVFKD - We have a large area to ventilate - PWH - 01:30

D-14: Under Control - 00:41

Duration: 34 Min.

Maybe:
E-299, 320, 326, 306
L-152, 167, 160F
B-53, 52
R-4
SQ-288
D-14
RAC-4

Relocations:
E-294 to E-299
E-289 to E-306
L-163 to L-152
L-130 to L-167
 
Last edited:
firebuffkevin

firebuffkevin

Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
8,501
Wasn't there an appliance and tv stores there as well? Maybe before Penn Fruit. I remember Frank G buying a washing machine there.
 
68jk09

68jk09

Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
16,241
The supermarket on the Hollis Court Blvd side had a few different names thru the years (more recently Food Universe & now Food Emporium) & has a bow string truss roof .....on the Horace Harding end of the L shaped taxpayer as Kevin said there used to be an appliance store which became a drug store & then a First Med type of place.
 
Last edited:
firebuffkevin

firebuffkevin

Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
8,501
68jk09 said:
The supermarket on the Hollis Court Blvd side had a few different names thru the years (more recently Food Universe & now Food Emporium) & has a bow string truss roof .....on the Horace Harding end of the L shaped taxpayer as Kevin said there used to be an appliance store which became a drug store & then a First Med type of place.
Click to expand...
Just came to me. Appliance store was Friendly Frost 😊
 
efd274

efd274

Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
7,535
Chief you are correct about the bow truss roof - when I was a kid I thoight it looked like something from outerspace, I believe it was the Penn Fruit look on all their stores - definitely pretty costly to construct at the time

Would think it might impact fire operations on the roof - perhaps you can comment on that
 
68jk09

68jk09

Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
16,241
Yes lot's of bad history with Wood Bow String Truss Roofs......very short lifespan during a serious Fire once it gets into the Truss area ....not only a Roof Collapse danger but also a danger of end "HIP RAFTERS" pushing a wall over.....info has been written about the dangers by Brannigan in his First Edition back in 1971 but certainly much, much more since the 6 LODDs at the BKLYN Waldbaums Supermarket 8-2-78.......Vinny Dunne on the subject also mentions beside Fire as a danger he relates about a BX NY Truss that collapsed due to a Snow load & wood pieces that rotted due to ...many Supermarkets & occupancies with a large open area (like a bowling alley or a factory, etc) are built with a Wood Bow String Truss Roof.....one of the problems is detection.....depending on the angle you view the bldg you may or may not see the classic hump ( this is the Supermarket in this thread & the classic hump is obvious in the picture but not necessarily from other angles... https://www.commercialcafe.com/comm...horace-harding-expwy-5850-francis-lewis-blvd/ )....knowing the Bldgs in your normal Response area is important but being able to identify or even suspect this type of Roof where ever you are is paramount....Brannigan's credo which all should follow is "a serious Fire in or under a Truss Roof should not be fought from under or on it".....I would say the key word here is "serious"...... no IC wants to stop an interior attack without good grounds but evaluation & extra caution are important as a Truss has killed.....heavy Fire could be present in an enclosed Truss area without some of the usual heavy Fire indicators like Fire out the windows for example.....I was the Acting Deputy Chief in DV*14 & late one night I responded to a 10-75 in a Key Food Supermarket on Springfield off Horace Harding which had been closed for several hours ....it had a decent smoke condition thruout ....I knew the bldg had a Truss & it was visible from the street & contained in the CIDS info....when I arrived they had not found the Fire yet & Units were inside searching....the BC in BN*53 (Quartered down the block) was an experienced Chief & had been on the scene for awhile but I was concerned thinking of the old "when everything seemed routine ...all of a sudden" quotes in many WNYF articles .....as I was conferring with him a Unit stated on the HT that they had found the source of the smoke in a cardboard compacting unit.....this turned out to be routine but I would say you cannot be too cautious with this type of construction & the various writings & reports on the subject should be a routine subject of Drill & Discussion.... here is a photo of the end of a Truss from the bldg in this thread at 196-35 Horace Harding.....usually these may not be visible but this at the front entrance is certainly a good indicator .... 1663520338212.png
 
Last edited:
68jk09

68jk09

Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
16,241
^^^ This is a photo of the rear & one side of the Supermarket at 198-35 Horace Harding Expwy....if you are too close to the bldg (like when you pull up alongside it ) you might not see the "Truss hump"....step back & take a good look during your initial sizeup.......this particular bldg does have visible evidence in the front but many have no visible indication from too close...... https://www.google.com/maps/place/5...791197704a27c4!8m2!3d40.7452127!4d-73.7780324
 
S

scoobyd

Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
849
There was an old truss hump on Broadway just south of W. 237 St. It was an ice rink that turned into a Loehmans Dept Store, after they moved from Fordham Rd. Across the street from the old Stella D'oro factory (I can still smell it) and the 50 Pct. Both long gone.
 
O

OMalley

Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
83
68jk09 said:
Yes lot's of bad history with Wood Bow String Truss Roofs......very short lifespan during a serious Fire once it gets into the Truss area ....not only a Roof Collapse danger but also a danger of end "HIP RAFTERS" pushing a wall over.....info has been written about the dangers by Brannigan in his First Edition back in 1971 but certainly much, much more since the 6 LODDs at the BKLYN Waldbaums Supermarket 8-2-78.......Vinny Dunne on the subject also mentions beside Fire as a danger he relates about a BX NY Truss that collapsed due to a Snow load & wood pieces that rotted due to ...many Supermarkets & occupancies with a large open area (like a bowling alley or a factory, etc) are built with a Wood Bow String Truss Roof.....one of the problems is detection.....depending on the angle you view the bldg you may or may not see the classic hump ( this is the Supermarket in this thread & the classic hump is obvious in the picture but not necessarily from other angles... https://www.commercialcafe.com/comm...horace-harding-expwy-5850-francis-lewis-blvd/ )....knowing the Bldgs in your normal Response area is important but being able to identify or even suspect this type of Roof where ever you are is paramount....Brannigan's credo which all should follow is "a serious Fire in or under a Truss Roof should not be fought from under or on it".....I would say the key word here is "serious"...... no IC wants to stop an interior attack without good grounds but evaluation & extra caution are important as a Truss has killed.....heavy Fire could be present in an enclosed Truss area without some of the usual heavy Fire indicators like Fire out the windows for example.....I was the Acting Deputy Chief in DV*14 & late one night I responded to a 10-75 in a Key Food Supermarket on Springfield off Horace Harding which had been closed for several hours ....it had a decent smoke condition thruout ....I knew the bldg had a Truss & it was visible from the street & contained in the CIDS info....when I arrived they had not found the Fire yet & Units were inside searching....the BC in BN*53 (Quartered down the block) was an experienced Chief & had been on the scene for awhile but I was concerned thinking of the old "when everything seemed routine ...all of a sudden" quotes in many WNYF articles .....as I was conferring with him a Unit stated on the HT that they had found the source of the smoke in a cardboard compacting unit.....this turned out to be routine but I would say you cannot be too cautious with this type of construction & the various writings & reports on the subject should be a routine subject of Drill & Discussion.... here is a photo of the end of a Truss from the bldg in this thread at 196-35 Horace Harding.....usually these may not be visible but this at the front entrance is certainly a good indicator .... View attachment 23555
Click to expand...
I went to this supermarket weekly for about four years. I always found it unique how obvious the truss construction was. Thanks for sharing the picture, Chief.

While it was not FDNY, it is hard not to think of the Hackensack Ford Fire when discussing truss roof construction.

www.firehouse.com

Remembering Hackensack Auto Dealership Fire

We present a look at the changes within the Hackensack, NJ, Fire Department since five firefighters died on July 1, 1988, while fighting a fire at an automobile dealership.
www.firehouse.com www.firehouse.com
 
efd274

efd274

Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
7,535
memorymaster said:
A trifle off the subject, but is the Blue Bay Diner still as good as it was years ago?
Click to expand...
Yes it is still very good - always pretty crowded - I’m in there generally at least once a month or so - my mother in law who is 102 and has all her faculties loves their coffee and French fries -
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top