BARB

3511

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I was in a Bronx house kitchen the other day and they mentioned BARB had been implemented a few weeks ago. Also saw reference to it in discussion of Bronx incident on the Concourse and XBX EXPWY.

Were hte suggested changes to BARB included? Is it Citywide? Maybe I missed a discussion of all this in another part of this site?

Get those old cards ready, G-Man. Should be interesting comparisons to them and STARFIRE, 150.
 

FDNY150

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It's based on GIS information as opposed to the old line of sight distance parameters used in Starfire. They proposed it up there in 08, and I remember a number of my friends in the field coming to me about it. It's still screwed up. There's a number of inaccuracies I see in the cards. It's been proposed for Manhattan as well, and as of right now, I've only heard howling from one or two people I know. It's been out in SI since either 07 or 08.
 

3511

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Thanks, guys.

We had some discussion about BARB when it arrived a few years ago. I saw some of the assignments and it really shuffled some repsonse areas. After the howls it was shelved in the Bronx for more study. Now it has been put into affect there as well and I wonder how much of the original changes were implememented. I will give an example:

88/38 lost most responses out east of White Plains Rd along Pelham Pkwy. It's a toss up between them and 62/32 and the latter were being sent in by BARB. With 62/32 leading the pack in runs/workers, this leaves a busy area all the way up to nearly Wakefield uncovered. Meanwhile, BARB sends 88/38 further northwest up into Bedford Park. Just some of the stuff under review. 
 

AuxWarYearsCapt

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FDNY150.....I am aware that you are a supervising dispatcher in Manhattan so I beleive you would have an answer for a question that was thrown at me......In the old days all we did was pull the alarm assignment card hit the voice alarm and send the units to the box. Now with all the technical updates the BARB system is in effect in SI & daBronx. All the other boros will have it in effect in the future.

A friend of mine from a Bronx Engine Co. had a copy of the BARB assignments for his unit that was printed by the officer....According to what he had in his hands, his unit had approx 220 boxes printed ( 37 pages  6 boxes per page ).
He stated that approx 95 percent of the boxes were listed were first due boxes and the other 5 percent were 2nd due boxes.....There were no 3rd due boxes nor anyother boxes listed anywhere and the BARB assignments showing 4th due and further alarms. The printout shows all the units assigned from the first to fifth alarms.....

Hopefully since you and your staff will be using the BARB system in the future, you can possibly have a answer.

Thank You for your response    Lone Wolf
 

mac8146

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The BARB lists the assignment from 1st to 5th alarm for the specific box you look up. It is broken down by individual units by battalion online. I think it only provides the 1st and 2nd due boxes for the individual unit, however if you check adjoining units boxes you can see changes on the boxes you may have been 3rd or 4 th due or moved onto another alarm. All changes are BOLD faced. So you have to check the units around you to see what the changes for your particular unit are for responses above 1st and  2nd due. Hope this helps
 

AuxWarYearsCapt

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Thanks Mac..............My real concern will be when the BARB system goes into effect in Queens.............I did the routes for many years for the company.........When 277 moved into 222's quarters we had alot of changes where we moved up ie. 4th due to 3rd due and 5th due to 4th due....Mostly in the upper Ridgewood area ........Now since there return to Knickerbocker Ave, I got all of our 1st alarm thru 5th alarm assignments from FAA. I changed all the 1st to 3rd alarm boxes to reflect our assignments......While I did that I deceided to also make route cards for our 4th and 5th alarm assignments.

I am still working on this project....It takes alot of time....We have over 3700 boxes assigned to the company...Needed alot of 3x5 index cards and a box of pens for this task. Atleast when we have another company relocated to us they will have a route card which is most appreciated by the chauffers.
 

tbendick

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What would have been better is provide a map route with the change. This way we could see what the program.is thinking.  Is it trying to send you down a oneway or use those little streets that can't fit a rig.  With out seeing the route its hard to know how to fix problems.

 

mac8146

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Good luck with a difficult task, routes can be real tough to follow when leaving the comfort zone of 1st and 2 nd due boxes, cards are a great help. We have ours on our computer and it is easy to change or update as needed and 8 1/2 by 11 allows more on a page. We keep the routes in  binders, in lieu of the old 3x5 cards.
 

FDNY150

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guitarman314 said:
I wonder if BARB is going continue to favor 75/33? ??? ::) ;)
Not supposed to, but there's at least one box of theirs that shouldn't be.
 

tbendick

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I was thinking more on the end of just seeing what the barb computer was thinking.  For example they were able to lower speed limits on bridges between boros to keep companys from responding over say the 59th street bridge to Manhattan.

Without seeing the routes the computer is coming up with it's hard to fix the problems other then to say hey we can beat XYZ enigne to the box everytime.  If you look at midtown, you have streets like shubert alley that you can't respond on, but the computer might be using it, or Park Ave around Grand Central.  If they could show the route the computer generated, we could come back any give true recomendations on why it's good or no good.

One of the concepts of the vendor is to allow changes at any time.  Company is relocated for renovations or street closed for long term construction, they would be able to build new boxes.  However as it stands without know why some assignments are wrong, this idea would allways lead to issues.

HTML:
<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Times Square, New York, NY&aq=0&oq=times&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=4.953463,7.064209&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Theater District - Times Square, New York&ll=40.759011,-73.984472&spn=0.002495,0.003449&t=m&z=14&output=embed"></iframe>
<small><a href="https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=Times Square, New York, NY&aq=0&oq=times&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=4.953463,7.064209&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Theater District - Times Square, New York&ll=40.759011,-73.984472&spn=0.002495,0.003449&t=m&z=14" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>
 

3511

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Great discussion. I guess those of us not on the job will have to lsten in and howl when we hear a messed up asignment. Get ready with the cards, G-Man.

150...and which box would that be?
 

AuxWarYearsCapt

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Now that Bronx went live with the BARB system it states Manhattan will be next followed by Brooklyn and then Queens....Does anyone have any info as to the time span for the last three boros to also go live with the BARB system....
 

FDNY150

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Give it a few years after all the appeals are processed, just a guess on my part.
 

AuxWarYearsCapt

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Effective August 22nd, the BARB LIVE system will start in the boro of Queens..........I saw it stated Brooklyn also but I was not able to catch the date.....I am thinking they are starting on the same date
 

tbendick

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Staten Island , Bronx, Manhattan are all online.
Queens is in the review process and getting ready to go live.
Brooklyn is still some time out.
 

FDNY150

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I've been back working in the Bronx for about two months now, and HOLY CRAP!!!! There are a LOT of mistakes. I looked up a few in Queens that I knew from living there, and there should be a lot of companies appealing. This goes for Manhattan, too. You think you should be a certain spot on a Box, appeal the hell out of it.
 

mac8146

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FDNY150 appeals fall on deaf ears, as you stated the Bronx barb has some odd changes as well as Manhattan, seems like HQ could care less about our "complaining" but some of these changes will get people hurt and possibly killed.
 
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