Charts - Growing Impact of FDNY CFR Runs on Engine Companies

[Lebby]

What happened to the 10 minute rule. Does that not apply any longer?

We are actually more strict now, than the 10 minute rule was. If it doesn't come up on the mask you have to call OLMC.

 

[baileyjeff]

We are actually more strict now, than the 10 minute rule was. If it doesn't come up on the mask you have to call OLMC.

And people don’t wanna hear that we have to call. Few months ago we had a run and the patients daughter demanded we take her Mom to a hospital nowhere close to us and got violent when we’re informed her of our protocol.

 

[memorymaster]

And people don’t wanna hear that we have to call. Few months ago we had a run and the patients daughter demanded we take her Mom to a hospital nowhere close to us and got violent when we’re informed her of our protocol.

We are actually more strict now, than the 10 minute rule was. If it doesn't come up on the mask you have to call OLMC.

Thank you, gentlemen. It makes grateful that I don't have to deal with the 'entitled' civilians any longer. Be safe out there and watch out for each other.

 

[squarewheels]

Thank you, gentlemen. It makes grateful that I don't have to deal with the 'entitled' civilians any longer. Be safe out there and watch out for each other.

it would be nice though if NYC did up the CFRD pay and/or tie ot into our contract raise. Engine men are running more than ever for the same rate as when the cfrd program started. Maybe that would keep a few guys from going over to the truck. Engines out running 2 to 1 in most cases.
Fever /cough - feels sick
Uncon outside - drunk guy
Major Inj fall - grandma fell out of bed
Major Inj bleed - guy cut his hand cutting a bagel
on and on and on

If 911 dispatchers which I think are pilice dispatchers just asked a few more questions the nonsense would stop. so many calls that FD dispatchers cant fix them all as they are then sent them to look over.

 

[memorymaster]

it would be nice though if NYC did up the CFRD pay and/or tie ot into our contract raise. Engine men are running more than ever for the same rate as when the cfrd program started. Maybe that would keep a few guys from going over to the truck. Engines out running 2 to 1 in most cases.
Fever /cough - feels sick
Uncon outside - drunk guy
Major Inj fall - grandma fell out of bed
Major Inj bleed - guy cut his hand cutting a bagel
on and on and on

If 911 dispatchers which I think are pilice dispatchers just asked a few more questions the nonsense would stop. so many calls that FD dispatchers cant fix them all as they are then sent them to look over.

Dial 911 and it goes to PD communications who in turn tranter it over to EMS communications. There an EMT attempts to illicit as much information as possible to correctly identify the type of medical emergency and what resources will be needed. Unfortunately there are many variables in this scenario, i.e. caller says one or two sentences and hangs up, caller hasn't a real clue as to what is occurring at the moment or caller knows the right words to say in order to get the troops moving for a nonsense call. Besides being nice to up the CFRD pay it would also be nice to up the EMS pay which is always an afterthought.

 

[bf231]

it would be nice though if NYC did up the CFRD pay and/or tie ot into our contract raise. Engine men are running more than ever for the same rate as when the cfrd program started. Maybe that would keep a few guys from going over to the truck. Engines out running 2 to 1 in most cases.
Fever /cough - feels sick
Uncon outside - drunk guy
Major Inj fall - grandma fell out of bed
Major Inj bleed - guy cut his hand cutting a bagel
on and on and on

If 911 dispatchers which I think are pilice dispatchers just asked a few more questions the nonsense would stop. so many calls that FD dispatchers cant fix them all as they are then sent them to look over.

Yes.
Most FDNY engines 1/3 to 1/2 of their runs are EMS.

 

[CFDMarshal]

Sadly many of those served know the key words and phrases that trigger the Alpha and Bravo responses! Thursday night in a 2 hour period we had 6 unconscious/chest pain calls. All were non emergent, 100K population.

 

[Extra One & One]

If 911 dispatchers which I think are pilice dispatchers just asked a few more questions the nonsense would stop. so many calls that FD dispatchers cant fix them all as they are then sent them to look over.

You make a valid point. However, in fairness to the dispatchers, everything they say and do is under scrutiny. It’s all recorded. That makes it prime for Monday-Morning-Quarterbacking. I’m not sure if NYC has this technology, but there are computer programs that show the dispatchers’ screens and every keystroke. You can see the dispatcher accidentally select Avenue instead of Road which can effect the whole response.

Just imagine if every firefighter had a helmet cam that recorded sound too! There would be such scrutiny of every move they made (dropping the axe, not putting the engine in pump correctly, overextending the ground ladder to a window, talking with a victim who states others in the B stair but it’s relayed as D, etc.) No one is perfect! Mistakes, no matter how minor, are examined after a tragedy or even a mess-up that’s questioned.

 

[squarewheels]

You make a valid point. However, in fairness to the dispatchers, everything they say and do is under scrutiny. It’s all recorded. That makes it prime for Monday-Morning-Quarterbacking. I’m not sure if NYC has this technology, but there are computer programs that show the dispatchers’ screens and every keystroke. You can see the dispatcher accidentally select Avenue instead of Road which can effect the whole response.

Just imagine if every firefighter had a helmet cam that recorded sound too! There would be such scrutiny of every move they made (dropping the axe, not putting the engine in pump correctly, overextending the ground ladder to a window, talking with a victim who states others in the B stair but it’s relayed as D, etc.) No one is perfect! Mistakes, no matter how minor, are examined after a tragedy or even a mess-up that’s questioned.

I visited the comm office and sat in for a EMS call. the caller had a nosebleed that wouldn't stop. the emt dispatcher proceeds to turn out a cfrd engine. after the call ended I asked emt why did she turn out an engine for a nosebleed and she said cause its a major injury and major bleed? is this just lack of knowledge on her part or just pure laziness not to ask more questions?

 

[Extra One & One]

I visited the comm office and sat in for a EMS call. the caller had a nosebleed that wouldn't stop. the emt dispatcher proceeds to turn out a cfrd engine. after the call ended I asked emt why did she turn out an engine for a nosebleed and she said cause its a major injury and major bleed? is this just lack of knowledge on her part or just pure laziness not to ask more questions?

I really can’t speak for the FDNY, as I am not familiar with their protocols. Where I worked, if a patient had an uncontrolled nosebleed (subjective, I realize) and was on a blood thinner, then a CFRD engine was also dispatched. At times an uncontrolled nosebleed when a patient has an underlying problem (high BP, on blood thinners, etc) can be a very serious medical condition. Sometimes the ER has to cauterize it to stop the bleeding.

Of course it could be lack of knowledge or laziness, too. Unfortunately the world is full of slackers in all fields. In my experience I ran across all types of dispatchers. I would like to think most were trying to do their best and follow the spirit of the SOP (Common sense always helps)!

 

[airbusboeing]

I visited the comm office and sat in for a EMS call. the caller had a nosebleed that wouldn't stop. the emt dispatcher proceeds to turn out a cfrd engine. after the call ended I asked emt why did she turn out an engine for a nosebleed and she said cause its a major injury and major bleed? is this just lack of knowledge on her part or just pure laziness not to ask more questions?

it could be, she is thinking what could happen because of the blood loss i can't say for sure

 

[Lebby]

I visited the comm office and sat in for a EMS call. the caller had a nosebleed that wouldn't stop. the emt dispatcher proceeds to turn out a cfrd engine. after the call ended I asked emt why did she turn out an engine for a nosebleed and she said cause its a major injury and major bleed? is this just lack of knowledge on her part or just pure laziness not to ask more questions?

Because she was doing her job. She followed the prompts and coded it correctly. An uncontrolled bleed (even a nose bleed) will be coded as a major injury. Perhaps the system is overzealous, perhaps not. At any rate, the EMT did exactly what she was supposed to do.

 

[Extra One & One]

The world of EMD is a beast of its own. All cards have to be approved by the medical director of the system using them. The doctors know what each condition might be other than what is obvious. As a general rule, they are written with a slant toward being “better safe than sorry”.

But when you think about it, many fire department procedures are written in the same way. A homeowner can state, “Why did you send five fire trucks? I told the dispatcher it was only a trash can fire under the sink and to send one truck.” However, the FD upper echelon, through years of experience, knows how quickly that trash can fire can turn into a 3-Alarm fire.

 

[baileyjeff]

I have many many calls where I arrive on scene for a chest pain call and the patient says to me that they told the call taker they had chest pain just to get us here quickly. Calls turns out to be a sick job.

 

[squarewheels]

god help the engine men if nosebleeds are getting cfrd engine responses. uncontrolled gushing blood like a broken pipe i get, but a regular nosebleed its overkill.

 

[Lebby]

god help the engine men if nosebleeds are getting cfrd engine responses. uncontrolled gushing blood like a broken pipe i get, but a regular nosebleed its overkill.

That's why they get the diff

 

[Extra One & One]

god help the engine men if nosebleeds are getting cfrd engine responses. uncontrolled gushing blood like a broken pipe i get, but a regular nosebleed its overkill.

You’re right. To heck with procedures, to heck with patient care, bozos write the guide cards, fire trucks shouldn’t go to medical calls, engine men need their rest! Thanks for educating me. 👍

 

[baileyjeff]

You’re right. To heck with procedures, to heck with patient care, bozos write the guide cards, fire trucks shouldn’t go to medical calls, engine men need their rest! Thanks for educating me. 👍

So if we can no longer get the fire to help us on the cardiac arrest, and we are on the fifth floor of a walk up building, and it’s your family member. What are we supppsed to do to get your family member down.

 

[Extra One & One]

So if we can no longer get the fire to help us on the cardiac arrest, and we are on the fifth floor of a walk up building, and it’s your family member. What are we supppsed to do to get your family member down.

Exactly!!! I don’t know if you read the thread, but I was being facetious. 😉