Extracation fee

grumpy grizzly

grumpy grizzly

Joined
Jun 27, 2007
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3,806
Please bear with m e on this. According to news reports the Chief of the Pontiac Illinois FD is considering an "extrcation fee'. According to news reports on a Chicago radio station many town are resorting to a "fees" requirement. This chief has suggested a 300 dollar "extracation fee " if you are involved in a MVA. Just posting this for everybody's info. :)
 
I've read several articles where fire departments are charging for accident responses if the driver(s) are not local.  Local residents don't get billed because they're paying taxes for the service.  Is this how the proposed system in Pontiac will work?  I can see a lot of backlash if the charge local residents who already pay taxes.
 
This was considered in my hometown in Jersey, the idea was quickly abandoned before it was implemented. Very ridiculous idea.
 
Why is it so ridiculous?  Most ambulances run by fire departments or the community charge for their services, why should the fire service be any different?  They will respond to anything and assist the victims, and then billed the insurance companies afterwards.  It's certainly a concept that needs to be evaluated in these times of declining public service budgets, making the user's pay for the service doesn't sound like such a dumb idea they to me.
 
Tax people/ask for donations then turn around and send them a bill in addition? Big difference than ambulance billing for medical care. You start nickel & diming everyone and you'll become your own worst enemy. Which type of insurance co. are you going to bill for cutting up a vehicle? Since it's not a medical function I can't see how you can bill Medicare or someone's health insurance. Then there's the owners' vehicle insurance which pays for the repair/replacement of the vehicle due to the accident, not for the removal of the person from the vehicle. Oh and don't forget those so-called no tax paying non-residents. I think those non-residents pay taxes/fees at tolls, stores, gas stations, restaraunts, hotels etc...
 
vbcapt said:
Big difference than ambulance billing for medical care.
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Why is it such a big difference?  It's exactly the same thing, units are dispatched to perform a service.
Which type of insurance co. are you going to bill for cutting up a vehicle? Since it's not a medical function I can't see how you can bill Medicare or someone's health insurance. Then there's the owners' vehicle insurance which pays for the repair/replacement of the vehicle due to the accident, not for the removal of the person from the vehicle.
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Actually it's already been done in some areas.  It's covered by the liability section of insurance.  Is basically the same thing as insurance paying for a telephone pole or a guardrail if you hit it and damage it.  He who caused the accident is responsible for all costs associated with it.
 
I just explained that. No matter how you slice it or whatever circular logic is used, you're sticking it to the taxpayer over & over again. If you do it enough times you won't be their knight in shining armor anymore and they'll stick it back. Maybe we can get rid of paying taxes and just pay for things that we use?
 
This was being done in Newark, NJ by University Hospital which runs a heavy rescue in that city. Not sure if they still bill the auto insurance company.
 
That whole setup in Newark with University Hospital is another strange deal. I used to live about 13 miles south of Newark and always knew about that setup and just never understood how it came to be. What I mean is, Newark FD has a Rescue; and a private for profit hospital just decided one day they wanted to staff a Rescue and respond in a City. Anyone know how all that got started?
 
vbcapt said:
I just explained that.
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You never explained it at all.  All you stated was that there was a big difference between billing for ambulance services and for extracations.  I just don't see a difference, both the fire service and the ambulance service is supported by tax money so it's the exact same thing.  People already pay taxes as you mentioned so why should anyone pay for either service?  Actually in my opinion it makes more sense to pay for extracations because that is much more specialized work and requires some very expensive equipment compared to most ambulances runs.
 
The Volunteer Rescue Squads bill here in rural Tennessee. They dont bill insurance co's though. They bill the vic that was removed from the vehicle and its not much. Like 125 or thats what I heard, but will find out. If you are DOA, no bill. If hit by DWI driver, no bill. They leave it up to the Chief to decide. They also dont send a collection agency either, i heard.
  They bill cause they are leasing there rescue truck out and it help'S with the monthly payment. We are talking about depts that have a population of 1,000 and less. One dept near me, Arrington,TN has like population of 250 in 80 square miles. All Angus cow farms and some trailers(Like every other town in TN). Which makes the tax braket, annual budgets of $3,000. Anything helps. They also bill for brush fires started by negligence like of other depts. Basicaly if you are burning leaves and gets out of control or throwing gas on the pile and causing 5 to 8 acres to burn. Someone has to help with paying for usualy a truck breaking down because cant afford new ones and using a 67 Mack engine as first due. Fuel,oil of the trucks. Adds up.
  Well thats how its done here in Middle Tennessee.
 
Ok we'll use your methodolgy and try it your way: do want your Dept. to bill for all fires, electrical shorts, miscellaneous service calls and everything else? If you go down that road your citizens will show up at your City Hall with pitchforks & torches. Give it a try and let me know how it works out.
 
vbcapt said:
Ok we'll use your methodolgy and try it your way: do want your Dept. to bill for all fires, electrical shorts, miscellaneous service calls and everything else? If you go down that road your citizens will show up at your City Hall with pitchforks & torches. Give it a try and let me know how it works out.
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You're certainly distorting things well out of proportion but since you did I'll try to explain why this make sense.  Since most taxpayers are paying for a service they never use why should they pay the same as someone who uses the service?  You can't disagree that it costs more when companies are in service than when they are in quarters.  The taxes cover the cost of having the equipment and people available.  The service fee is designed to cover the additional costs incurred during the use of the equipment (including wear and tear, fuel, disposables, etc.).  The costs I've seen quoted are significantly lower than they would be if they were intended to cover the complete cost of the Manpower, equipment, fuel etc. required to answer the call.

By the way you have yet to answer my question about how paying for the ambulance and for extracation are different?
 
During a budgetary process all the costs associated with service provision (operational/capital) are supposed to be factored in, I guess you don't do that in Kentucky? Whether your equipment/manpower is idle or working is irrelevant. I'll fill you in on the other issue....again. The BIG difference is that the act of extricating is not a medical procedure/function. How's that? or would you care to go round & round some more  ;D
 
I hear what you are saying and I'm grateful that my job or vollies doesn't bill. Seems like a mess. I have one even worse than that. Portland,TN has a paid dept, only covers the actual city limits. They cover a large area of the County( Sumner County) and if you didn't pay your yearly fee and your house catches on fire they will literally just watch it. Which i think its insane. Again from guys i know, its done because residents outside the City don't pay for fire protection taxes. Its $250 a year. Don't know how they keep records on that. When I first heard that i was amazed and in disbelief. But its true!
 
rdm258 said:
if you didn't pay your yearly fee and your house catches on fire they will literally just watch it.
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I would hope they would do a rescue if needed
 
That is worse. I've heard of systems like that some time ago I didn't know that nonsense still occurred.
 
This is nothing new the city of pittsburgh ems has done this for years.If you are not a city resident they send you a hefty bill for there serivces and trasport to the hospital.
 
in chicago there is so much abuse of the EMS and fire service that they should tax them. the reasons that people call for ambulances are insane and childish. they are walking and talking and a stable patient so they call ems when a family member can drive them, Y???
 
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