FDNY Patches & Rig Decals

[fdhistorian]

I agree it was wrong to renumber the divisions.
The FDNY has fewer than 200 engine companies yet they're numbered into the 330s. Why not renumber them?

I heard a story of a DC in Division 11 explaining to someone with no knowledge of the FDNY makeup how the department was organized.
He explained about the engines and ladders, how they're a part of a battalion, and that there are several battalions that make up a division and that there were nine divisions.
He was asked what division he was in and replied "the eleventh".
The guy gave him a puzzled look,

FDNY has renumbered companies many times over the years. Expansion, growth, geography, communication (telegraph) simplicity and re-designation are among the reasons.

More companies have existed under different numbers than not. Most of the time, companies remain in the same location and only the numbers change.

Engines in Brooklyn and Queens have had three numbers – their original one/two digit number, the 100 series number in 1899, and the expansion 200 series number in 1913.

Staten Island had original numbers, then 200 series numbers, then their present numbers.

Ladders also had three numerical identities, (original, plus 50, plus 100).

Second sections that became new companies were renumbered.

Engines that became Squads were renumbered (1 and 8)

Battalions were renumbered in 1898 and 1906.

Divisions were renumbered in 1905, 1906, 1907, 1930, and 1995. Some Divisions have had 4 numbers without ever moving. The South Bronx Division has been known as the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 3rd Division.

Two digit numbers were used to distinguish Brooklyn and Queens Divisions from the other boros. In the early 1970’s, the numbers used were as high as 17, but there were never 17 Divisions in service simultaneously. Marine Division was never numbered.

Some numbers are temporary, some are reserved, some were skipped and forgotten. It makes for great trivia questions.

And then there is Station numbering as used in many cities. Companies get their number from their assigned station location. So, Station 99 would have Engine 99, Ladder 99, Squad 99, and Battalion 99. If a company goes to a different station, they get renumbered.

FDNY has that too, coincidentally. 10/10 and 52/52. A couple of others almost happened.

E105, L68 and DC6 – yes, they did exist.

 

[fdhistorian]

feels like the fdny/nyc is one of the few departments that becomes smaller as the city expands.

Almost a million in population growth since 1990 but less company coverage

Not exactly. They merged with Health & Hospitals and EMS added people and units.

 

[entropychaser]

When fire departments merge, it is common to need companies renumbered. So the saga of FDNY company IDs being changed to avoid redundancy is understandable. And I always laugh when the original Ladder 103 being on Staten Island is mentioned.

In general, I think that renumbering existing companies should be avoided to preserve a company's tradition and history. Renumbering a company using a previously closed or disbanded unit is a no-no. That's erasing history; almost the work of the devil. Anyone who has seen the movie "The Exorcist" knows the kind of problems that can create.

I'm also against station numbering for ladders and chiefs. It just seems unnatural. Houston FD used to have three digit sequential company numbering: 100 series for chiefs, 200 series for engines, 300 series for ladders.

When they opened Station 68 in 1973 (there's now 105), the ladder company was....368!. When I first heard the dispatcher read that off the running assignment on a box, I thought "There's been a huge mistake made". Yeah...on my part. The end of an era.

I found out later from an HFD IT guy, that when they were putting Station 68 into the CAD they were too lazy to figure out the correct sequential ladder 300 number. "Just put 368 as a place holder in there. No one will care".

 

[fdhistorian]

When fire departments merge, it is common to need companies renumbered. So the saga of FDNY company IDs being changed to avoid redundancy is understandable. And I always laugh when the original Ladder 103 being on Staten Island is mentioned.

In general, I think that renumbering existing companies should be avoided to preserve a company's tradition and history. Renumbering a company using a previously closed or disbanded unit is a no-no. That's erasing history; almost the work of the devil. Anyone who has seen the movie "The Exorcist" knows the kind of problems that can create.

I'm also against station numbering for ladders and chiefs. It just seems unnatural. Houston FD used to have three digit sequential company numbering: 100 series for chiefs, 200 series for engines, 300 series for ladders.

When they opened Station 68 in 1973 (there's now 105), the ladder company was....368!. When I first heard the dispatcher read that off the running assignment on a box, I thought "There's been a huge mistake made". Yeah...on my part. The end of an era.

I found out later from an HFD IT guy, that when they were putting Station 68 into the CAD they were too lazy to figure out the correct sequential ladder 300 number. "Just put 368 as a place holder in there. No one will care".

Houston Ladder 68 would have been 27 (327) sequentially but they were organized just as Houston was changing from individual numbers to station numbers. If they had re-used available open numbers, they would have been 16.
Re-using available numbers extends the history of a company. Just like moving a company to a different house but with a time interval from one location to the next.

 

[entropychaser]

HFD Station 68 was busy from Day 1 and over the years things have only gotten crazier. If yer a go-getter, and , don't live up in east Texas, that's where you work.

Their second due boxes end a few blocks west of me. That's where I can also hear the automatic weapon's gunfire at night.