High Ladders
- Thread starter mack
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raybrag said:
We have in Helsinki at the time a 178 feet tall ladder. (Helsinki 16)
Pic of Helsinki 16: http://kuvalle.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Emergency+units+from+Finland/Helsinki/Helsinki+16+.jpg
We are getting a new 16 this year, I've heard it's going to be around 235 feet tall.
Bronto Skylift is the manufacturer.
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HLA looks like a pretty impressive piece of equipment.The web site is definitely worth a visit.
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We use ladder trucks differently than you do in the States.truckman said:
For examplel water rescue is easy to do if the victim is near the shore .
Just use the ladder truck to get to the victim and lift him up to the basket.
Fast and easy.
Our "snorkel"type ladders are also more practical than your "ladder" type ladders. Our ladders are able to get above the house, cause the ladder isn't "straight" it has the joint in the ladder piece.
Some pics of Helsinki 66:
http://kuvalle.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Incidents+in+Helsinki/A+fire+on+the+7th+floor+of+a+multiple+dwelling.+/A+lot+of+smoke+only+10+minutes+after+the+original+dispatch.jpg
and
http://kuvalle.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Incidents+in+Helsinki/A+fire+on+the+7th+floor+of+a+multiple+dwelling.+/Helsinki+4+ja+16.jpg
I believe NASA has a 235 ft bronto for launch pad maintenance, there are three brontos in service in NJ, although they take a little longer to set up,they are pretty versatile, great for roofs with parapets, they can do below grade rescues off bridges, up over primary wires with out getting too close. They get a bit trickey to operate if you have the pump engaged and the aerial operating.
I always found it to be quite a workout climbing the aerial while carrying the Partner Saw to the roof of a 6 or 7 story MD (It was even more of a workout when you did it 3 or 4 times the same tour!). As far as what F.D.N.Y. specifies for aerial operations, it's all been well thought out and the department has a tremendous amount of experience when it comes to operating at high places whether fighting a fire or performing a rescue. F.D.N.Y. has set firefighting standards throughout its long history and continues to do so today.
That is well put "69mets". If depts followed the FDNY questions would have been answered. I always wondered why many chiefs or depts didn't just ask the advice of the FDNY and get an answer to their problem. They test any new equipment, tactics etc. And you name it, they got it. From the highrises of Manhattan to the single family frames in parts of the city.
I guess you could say, "I'm on the outside looking in", but I see some of the tactics out there, and a lot of money spent on some new pipedream equipment for some depts and I just shake my head. Usually, the FDNY has tried it months ago, and if it didn't work, they rejected it. And they would gladly give the reasons why. They have tested and tried it. Whether its buying hose, turnout gear, or apparatus. Whether its how to vent a frame or venting a high rise, FDNY usually has the answer.
They might even be able to put a "Man on Mars" if they worked hard enough on it.
All kidding aside, they know their stuff and are always willing to help. And I'd say that's true from the Firefighter to the Highest Seasoned Officer.
I guess you could say, "I'm on the outside looking in", but I see some of the tactics out there, and a lot of money spent on some new pipedream equipment for some depts and I just shake my head. Usually, the FDNY has tried it months ago, and if it didn't work, they rejected it. And they would gladly give the reasons why. They have tested and tried it. Whether its buying hose, turnout gear, or apparatus. Whether its how to vent a frame or venting a high rise, FDNY usually has the answer.
They might even be able to put a "Man on Mars" if they worked hard enough on it.
All kidding aside, they know their stuff and are always willing to help. And I'd say that's true from the Firefighter to the Highest Seasoned Officer.
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nfd2004 said:
So your saying that "Bronto type-ladders" have been tested by the FDNY?
And they wasn't good enough?
And the old "ladder-type" ladder beat them?
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I been telling Kelly from the beginning of this Oil Spill crisis if the Fire Dept was in charge. It would be stopped, somehow, someway. Even if had to fill it with a bunch of "probies" (LOL). Especially if FDNY was in charge they would find some resource to stop it. Just figured,went along "nfd" with your "men on mars" statement, it's true. NYC is one amazing City with one amazing fire and police(hate me for saying them in the same sentence) Dept's. They encounter and overcome so amazing challenges and are faced day in and day out, with the "What's going to happen today" that will test our resources and knowledge.
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I believe the FDNY was thinking of purchasing a long reach Bronto in the late 80's. I even remember seeing a drawing somewhere depicting a giant 4-axle Ladder 24 Bronto. I don't know why they didn't buy one but I can tell you IMHO that something that big cannot maneuver around Manhattan.HelsinkiVolunteer said:
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Guitarman314,
Wasn't the city's decision not to purchase a Bronto based partly on the fact that an FDNY chief was tossed out of the bucket of a Bronto during a demonstration and the company's poor safety record at that point in time?
1261truckie (Jim)
Wasn't the city's decision not to purchase a Bronto based partly on the fact that an FDNY chief was tossed out of the bucket of a Bronto during a demonstration and the company's poor safety record at that point in time?
1261truckie (Jim)
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We will be getting a 5-axle 235 feet tall ladder in Helsinki this year.guitarman314 said:
But Bronto is able to manufacture smaller only 3-axle aerials, that are a lot bigger and "better" than the usual ladder trucks that the FDNY uses.
Example:
Helsinki 36 110 feet tall: http://kuvalle.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Incidents+in+Helsinki/A+huge+inferno+on+a+Neste+gas+station+/kuva6.JPG
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Let's not get into a watering tournament here, guys. Some of the recent posts seem to insinuate that FDNY has the ONLY good ideas in firefighting, and now our Finnish friend talks about a "better" ladder. Can't we agree that yes, FDNY is a great department, but there are other great departments in many places around the world. Conditions in Helsinki are far different than in NYC and perhaps a long-reach Bronto is better for the conditions there; and maybe a 75' Aerialscope or 100' straight stick is better for NYC. That doesn't mean that Finnish firefighters are better (or worse) than FDNY members . . . just that they face different conditions when they meet the red beast.
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raybrag said:
Yep yep. I don't want to hurt anybodys feelings.
But I just meant the pure "ladder abilities".
Your ladders are better equipt than ours, ours are higher than yours.
Cultural difference.
Biggest difference is the use of ladder trucks in my homecountry and in the States.
We use ladder trucks only, because of the ladders (high rescue etc.). So our ladders don't have any equipment.
You dispatch ladders to traffic accidents etc. And your ladders are better equipped than basic engines.
Main thing is that both truck types works and safes people!
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OK guys time for me to chirp.In 1974 the Chicago Fire Dept purchased a very unusual rig. It was on a Hedrickson Diesel chassis with a 3 man cab. The ladder is a Japanese-made 136 foot Morita-lift with a 2-man elevator that runs up the center of the extended 6 section aerial Although originally assigned to H&L Company 2, but was too big for company quarters. It was then assigned to H&L 1. I have pixs but all my stuff is with my son. Walt McCall has a pix on page 373, credits to him with his book American FireEngines since 1900 The second rig in question is a Boston Fire Dept rig. In 1941 BFD received a white-painted 3 man enclosed cab ALF (Model HD-125} This rig had a short and troubled career. Assigned to Lader 8 the aerial buckled during an evening drill. The rig was repaired by ALF and returned to service. In 1942 it was buried under a falling wall in which 6 BFD members were killed. Boston box 5-6153, November 15. The rig was again rebuilt, painted RED and returned to service with a 100' aerial and assigned to Ladder 19. While on a test run in 1947 the rig overturned during a brake test. A member of Ladder 19 was killed,after this the rig was scrappped 
While I think Bronto makes a product that works well in Europe, I think the size of the rig, and the size of the streets here in the city don't mesh. I know of a few departments in the states that have them. Try getting one of those down oh I dunno, 5th Avenue or Broadway during rush hour on a friday before a holiday weekend. Never mind the fact the city would have to put some reinforcement on the floor of any firehouse it's being quartered in. I've shot two of them in my travels. One in Phoenix and one in Anaheim. Impressive to look at, but not really sure how well it works for them. Made for some nice pics though. Grizz, there's a picture of it that Bill Friedrich took. It's in a book I have. If I could only find it.
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Your opinion of Brontos working better in Europe than in the States is a bit "wrong".FDNY150 said:
Our cities are alot older than yours (most of them) which usually means also smaller streets. US citys are often build for car/truck usage.
Our 500 years old citys. suprise suprise aren't. But that is just one opinion.
Traffic is then another issue also. But I'll think our Bronto trucks would fit fine to your busy Manhattan streets.
Then we will respectfully agree to disagree. What works there may not work here. Although, trust me, I was in my car today and it took me the better part of 15 minutes to get across town at 2 in the afternoon, and I was driving a car. So traffic would be an issue.