LA fire Captain makes $500000 in overtime

That's utterly ridiculous! Assuming he was paid double time for all the overtime he worked still had to have worked 1.5x more hours and overtime than he did regular time. It's ridiculously to let him work that many hours just from a safety standpoint!
 
Bulldog said:
He's just abusing the system making that much working overtime! My guess is he's getting ready to retire and doing this to get a much larger retirement.
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How's he abusing the system? The department needed a member to work the overtime. What does it matter if it was one guy or three guys, the city pays out more or less the same rate hour for hour for a butt in the seat. If anything he is doing a service to the department by volunteering for the OT and he is getting what he deserves for his hard work.

If you saw my pay stub, which is about double my base you may be inclined to say the same about me. But, in reality I'm just ensuring the members of the community I serve get the protection they deserve and I'm fairly compensated for it. Work needs someone to come in and I want to come in to work, it's a win-win. These stories try and tarnish hard working civil servants as some sort of villain when nothing is further from the truth.
 
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Unfortunately some of those on the job today don’t want overtime. Others want it but have limitation such as second job and family obligations that limit how much they can take. When not enough people take OT, many departments start mandatorying member to take OT. So those that take as much as they can get make sure that the seats are filled and those that don’t want OT don’t get mandatory.
 
My concern would be that somebody working that much overtime is much more likely to get hurt on the job. They obviously are not getting sufficient rest and time to recover between shifts.
 
Bulldog said:
My concern would be that somebody working that much overtime is much more likely to get hurt on the job. They obviously are not getting sufficient rest and time to recover between shifts.
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Your point is well taken. And there comes a point where a person working more than 48 hours straight or constant 48 on 24 off becomes totally fatigued to the point of it affecting decision making, reaction time and physical capabilities.
 
As a retired officer of the US Army I never had one sniff of one hour of overtime pay. 24/7 baby, “for the flag” as we said. I guess I must congratulate you all, you guys have a lot better union then we soldiers have ever had.
 
Its hard for us to say until we know the guidelines for the assignment of OT by that department. If there are openings in the captain rank and the dept fails to fill the slots, then they are responsible for creating the OT situation. Having a person work those many hours creates a possible unsafe situation for the duty crew. Department management should be held responsible.
 
Lebby said:
How's he abusing the system? The department needed a member to work the overtime. What does it matter if it was one guy or three guys, the city pays out more or less the same rate hour for hour for a butt in the seat. If anything he is doing a service to the department by volunteering for the OT and he is getting what he deserves for his hard work.

If you saw my pay stub, which is about double my base you may be inclined to say the same about me. But, in reality I'm just ensuring the members of the community I serve get the protection they deserve and I'm fairly compensated for it. Work needs someone to come in and I want to come in to work, it's a win-win. These stories try and tarnish hard working civil servants as some sort of villain when nothing is further from the truth.
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I think you did a Very Good Job of explaining it here "Lebby".

I can also relate to working a lot of overtime during my time.
I had no children and my wife understood very well that sometimes my Brother Firefighters needed to be off and we had a mandatory manning level.
If that manning level was NOT FILLED, it meant somebody would be ordered back.

In many cases its the same for our police departments, EMS both public and private, public utilities, public works, sanitation depts, 911 dispatchers, hospital staff, nurses, CNAs, and doctors, etc.
These are a few examples of those we ALL depend on every day/minute of the year.

The other way of course is to hire additional people to do the job.
But I do remember somewhere, that paying overtime is cheaper than hiring additional workers.

Apparently this fire captain was able to successfully perform his duties
Unless there are records to show otherwise.
SOMEBODY MUST BE THERE TO DO THE JOB.
 
There are so many points to unpack here:

1) Does a department have sections of the city where some companies do 3 or 4 calls a day, and perhaps once a week they get a call after midnight? I’m guessing you could work a lot more overtime working out of E70/L53 on City Island, than to work out of E255/L157 in Brooklyn! Big difference in call volume/work being done.

2) If a city agreed to certain terms with the union, and both sides are playing fair, then the only concern really is how many hours in a row is someone working on a busy unit? I think the “reasonable” test should be considered. Is it safe for anyone to work 96 hours in a row on a unit that’s averaging 22 calls a day? This would apply to pilots, truck drivers, nurses, heck, even janitors. At some point there has to be a point of diminishing returns in the cost of safety, not only to themselves but to co-workers and customers.

3) It’s true, someone has to be there to meet minimum staffing. Some people want the overtime and others don’t. As long as someone is volunteering to do it, and it’s not to the extreme point of jeopardizing safety, then let them do it. Nothing is more demoralizing and frustrating then continuous hold-overs/order-ins.

4) Does the department need to hire more people, or are they just going through a lot of retirements and/or injuries and eventually it will find it’s way back to the norm?

5) What is most frustrating to me, is that the public reads these stories with no context. Many people picture some guy picking up an extra shift here and there and making boat loads of money, while still enjoying their weekends with family and friends! Not so. I know some over-time hounds and not many people, including me, could do what they do! It’s a grind but they earn every penny of it!
 
Let's be honest. We don't know or understand how or why a city employee anywhere can or should be paid over $700K for salary and OT per year - especially in a job which has strict safety guidelines regarding hours worked. The OT was most likely paid legally, approved by leadership and performed for necessary duties. There are, however, real concerns, and this is not simply an issue of "good for him" or "department salaries are too low".

Does anyone think this is not a very negative headline and news story for public support for FFs, for politicians looking to cut fire and police budgets, for future salary negotiations, for support for strict working hours protection, for creating an impression that OT can be abused, and for the creating the perception that fire departments are run ineffectively? The few OT abuses that become public always diminish public confidence and support ( e.g. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/...oper-sentenced-overtime-abuse-investigation-0).

You can't blame the individual, the Lieutenant. He is doing his job and performing duties required and approved. But you have to question LAFD leadership, and any department leadership, which operates in a way that requires or enables employees to earn $700K, or $400K - more than city and department leaders, more than other firefighters and significantly more than the general public. Leadership would have to know the negative impacts and possible job-related physical impacts on members who also may subsequently have sick leave, line-of-duty medical conditions and retirement impacts related to extremely excessive OT which they are approving in their departments. And you have to ask, "Really, is any one person so indispensable in a large city department, that he or she has to be at work all the time - and what happens if they can't work? Does the department shut down?" So maybe - the OT can be better shared, and other members can be trained or hired to perform these duties. And maybe there is a better way to distribute OT so more member can benefit.

I am not arguing about the needs for OT - for both rank-and-file members and for the department to operate effectively. But, let's be honest - is this a good $700K story - for the individual, for the department, for firefighters? I don't think so.

Have good OT policies and agreements, follow them, pay members decent salaries, provide effective and fair leadership and take care of the troops.
 
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I also want to add that I grew up in family of 8 on a low FDNY firefighter's salary at a time when there was no minimum manning and OT was rare. Companies stayed in service and responded with 4, 3, 2 or even 1 on the back step. I know OT is well-earned, necessary and important income for FFs, POs, EMTs. But there are unfortunately the very few instances of abuse and/or poor leadership practices undermine OT programs.
 
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According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median income in 2022 of full time workers (including overtime, commissions, and tips) is $54,132 per annum.

"America's Bravest are not very different from any other blue-collar worker." Dennis Smith

Not anymore (at least in LA)!
 
After reading some more, any more OT than 12 hours in a single 24 immediately goes to double time.
 
mack said:
If someone is tapped to work a 24 hour OT tour, city contract requires payment of double time for 24 hr working tour.
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Is that common? I’m from Ma and I’m not aware of anyone in my area that does that, I love the sound of it though!
 
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