Li. Ion fires

Q

QUEENS1985

Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
325
How are the lithium ion fires fought differently, and what does hazmat/hazmat tech engine do with them on scene?
 
Skyler Fire

Skyler Fire

Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,422
As they can reignite at any time. They are very dangerous as most of the time they are kept at front doors of apartments. Imagine stretching a line into a well involved apartment and passing the ebike/scooter not know that was the cause, get to the back apartment and the ebike/scooter starts up again and burns through the line….

hazmat will arrive on scene take the scooter or e bike cut it down to just the battery and put it into a Decon bin with Cell Block Ex and hazmat sanitation will pick it up. For ebike stores it’s contracted out for pick up.
Bayonne Hazmat just got there Cell Block Ex
Jersey City Hazmat is suppose to be ordering it
 
F

FDNYSTATENISLAND

Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
9,386
Sounds like a well oiled machine, this operation. Engines extinguish fire, hazmat packages and removes battery, sanitation collects it at the end. Quite the number of agencies and parties involved at each and every battery fire.
 
Skyler Fire

Skyler Fire

Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
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8060rock said:
"Let's hope" that the Engine firefighter at the apt. door would be alert enough to make notification of the bike reigniting long before it "burned through the line".
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That’s if they knew that started the fire in the first place….. imagine that….
 
8

8060rock

Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
3,418
skylerfire said:
That’s if they knew that started the fire in the first place….. imagine that….
Click to expand...
Not to belabor the point, but you said "the bike starts up again and burns through the line" - in any event, the door firefighter not being aware of the bike igniting or reigniting would be hard to......imagine that
 
LaurenSkye

LaurenSkye

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May 11, 2022
Messages
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Are foam trucks sent to these fires? I'm not that familiar with it but it seems like foam may be needed to extinguish these fires or do the engines carry enough foam to handle?
 
Skyler Fire

Skyler Fire

Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,422
LaurenSkye said:
Are foam trucks sent to these fires? I'm not that familiar with it but it seems like foam may be needed to extinguish these fires or do the engines carry enough foam to handle?
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All engines have buckets of foam so they don’t need big foam adless big job
 
G

GFD70

Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
134
LaurenSkye said:
Are foam trucks sent to these fires? I'm not that familiar with it but it seems like foam may be needed to extinguish these fires or do the engines carry enough foam to handle?
Click to expand...
Foam has a limited impact if any on a Li-Ion battery fire. What is occurring is essentially a chemical reaction within the battery called thermal run away where the battery rapidly overheats and ignites. I should also add that the smoke is significantly more toxic than most carbon-based materials.

The FDNY has been conducting a pilot program where they are submerging the battery in a container of a Class D extinguishing product that encapsulates the battery, which excludes oxygen and ultimately extinguishes the fire.

Check out this podcast with a member of Haz Mat 1 for a much better explanation:
I believe this is the product they are using: https://cellblockfcs.com/cellblockex/

It'll work well on a cell phone or e-bike. Not so much on a, electric vehicle. Rosenbauer has come out with a variation of the piercing nozzle that can penetrate a car's high voltage battery and apply water directly to the battery cells. Not sure if the FDNY is carrying it yet.

Most EV manufacturer's say to use "copious amounts of water" when dealing with a car fire. Try doing that on a limited access highway with no hydrants. I've heard stories of car fires taking 5+ hours to extinguish. I guess that's why they recommend not parking an EV in your garage...

Apparently, the solution that the freightliner industry has come up with when shipping across the ocean is to put any shipping container that has Li Ion batteries on top of the ship and their plan is to simply dump them into the ocean if they catch fire.

As they saying goes, "Every problem has a solution and every solution has a problem." All in the name of "Going Green" I guess.
 
D

DaveReinstein

Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Messages
492
GFD70 said:
Foam has a limited impact if any on a Li-Ion battery fire. What is occurring is essentially a chemical reaction within the battery called thermal run away where the battery rapidly overheats and ignites. I should also add that the smoke is significantly more toxic than most carbon-based materials.

The FDNY has been conducting a pilot program where they are submerging the battery in a container of a Class D extinguishing product that encapsulates the battery, which excludes oxygen and ultimately extinguishes the fire.

Check out this podcast with a member of Haz Mat 1 for a much better explanation:
I believe this is the product they are using: https://cellblockfcs.com/cellblockex/

It'll work well on a cell phone or e-bike. Not so much on a, electric vehicle. Rosenbauer has come out with a variation of the piercing nozzle that can penetrate a car's high voltage battery and apply water directly to the battery cells. Not sure if the FDNY is carrying it yet.

Most EV manufacturer's say to use "copious amounts of water" when dealing with a car fire. Try doing that on a limited access highway with no hydrants. I've heard stories of car fires taking 5+ hours to extinguish. I guess that's why they recommend not parking an EV in your garage...

Apparently, the solution that the freightliner industry has come up with when shipping across the ocean is to put any shipping container that has Li Ion batteries on top of the ship and their plan is to simply dump them into the ocean if they catch fire.

As they saying goes, "Every problem has a solution and every solution has a problem." All in the name of "Going Green" I guess.
Click to expand...
It was very informative when they talked about the fires on the podcast.
I remember the job in the Bronx where the kids slid down the pipe to get away from the battery fire
 
L

Lebby

Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
1,483
DaveReinstein said:
It was very informative when they talked about the fires on the podcast.
I remember the job in the Bronx where the kids slid down the pipe to get away from the battery fire
Click to expand...
nycfire.net

12/16/21 Manhattan 10-77 2nd Alarm Box 442

Fire Location: 118 Ave D Reported fire on the 4th fl of a 14 story high rise MD 100 X 100 Class 1 Box loaded up. Reports of people hanging out the windows on the 4th floor L-3 Fast MD to B-4 reports of people out the window in the rear as well B-4 gave the 10-77 @07:15 E-28,5,15,33...
nycfire.net nycfire.net
 
Bulldog

Bulldog

Bulldog
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Apr 16, 2008
Messages
2,305
While banning them certainly seems extreme it is a major problem that needs a solution. Not only in NYC but everywhere. Banning them is a little over the edge but certainly requiring device designs to be UL approved would be a step in the right direction. It's going to be issued to see what comes out of this.
 
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