Los Angeles Brush Fire 1/7/25

Any math wizards out there who can translate acres into square miles? Also what would that translate into sections of a state, such as Conn or RI so people could understand how really massive these fires are.
 
grumpy grizzly said:
Any math wizards out there who can translate acres into square miles? Also what would that translate into sections of a state, such as Conn or RI so people could understand how really massive these fires are.
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The pallisides fire is 26.5625 (17,000 acres) sq miles currently. Rhode Island is 1034.375 sq miles, around 662,000 acres.
 
So here is a frame of reference for ya. The snip shown below shows the number of acres in Los Angeles County that are on fire or burned out. A total of 28850 acres. Divided by 640 is 45 square miles. The BRONX has a total land area of 42 square miles. Wow! IMG_0460.jpeg
 
This is still a relatively small disaster compared to Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Hurricane Harvey in Houston (620 square miles- 15 times the size of the Bronx), or the 1900 Galveston hurricane (8,000 to 12,000 fatalities).

Also, from what I know of these neighborhoods, or have seen on TV, pretty much everything is going to covered by homeowners insurance. Most jobs lost will be by hourly workers who will be severely affected.

Lastly, the San Francisco Fire Department has extensive wildland firefighting experience. The Hetch Hetchy Reservoir in Yosemite National Park provides part of the water supply to San Francisco via a pipeline that crosses underneath the South Bay north of San Jose and enters the city from the south (and crosses the San Andreas Fault). SFFD is responsible for fire protection of the Hetch Hetchy watershed.
 
I believe the Bel Air / Brentwood fire in November 1961 was the most expensive wildfire in LA history until next week. Nearly 500 homes destroyed. This fire occurred just to the east of the current Palisades fire. From the linked report, there was a great concern at that time that the Bel Air fire would jump its western boundary and start a second conflagration in Pacific Palisades.

Link below is to the City of Los Angeles Fire Department's post-fire investigation and report. There are eerie parallels. Weather conditions were similar, though the winds were significantly lower during the Bel Air fire, only 60 mph..

https://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/1961-1106_BelAirFire/1961-1106_LAFD-Report_BelAirFire.htm

Below is an excerpt from the report on water supply capacities, demand, and usage.

In those locations where deficiencies did develop, the cause was solely the result of an inability of the distribution system in the immediate vicinity of the fire to sustain a prolonged overload that far exceeded designed capacity. Where hydrants failed, it was invariable at higher elevations at times when tremendous amounts of water were being taken from the mains at lower levels.

The Bel Air-Brentwood area is served by both a gravity flow and a pumped water system. From the San Fernando Valley on the north, large 60 and 72-inch trunk lines supply pumping stations which lift water into a number of reservoirs and tanks situated in the mountains. A 16-inch main which follows Mulholland Drive above the fire areas is fed from these storage points. From this main, 8 and 12-inch distribution mains go down into the canyons and along the ridges of the southern slope to supply the higher portions of the canyons and to assist in the maintenance of proper levels in various holding tanks. Distribution mains extend through the entire north-south length of the canyons between Mulholland Drive and Sunset Blvd. This latter thoroughfare follows the line of foothills on the southern side of the mountains. Automatic pressure regulators installed in these canyon mains balance supplies between the gravity flow from the summit and those pumped from the south.

In Stone Canyon are two reservoirs having a combined total capacity of 10,894 acre-feet. A large main goes south from these reservoirs to connect to a 36-inch supply main which follows Sunset Blvd. westerly toward Pacific Palisades near the ocean. Strategically placed pumping stations carry water from this main up into the lower canyons and ridges north of Sunset Blvd. to supply the smaller mains and holding tanks of the Bel Air and Brentwood sections. On the first day of the fire, two new pumping stations and one 16-inch main which were nearing completion were rushed into service for the first time to augment water supplies.

During the course of the fire, water usage in the area reached unprecedented levels. Total consumption through the first two days was 77,500,000 gallons. This represents an increase of 35,000,000 gallons over normal consumption during a like period. Peak use at the apex of fire operations exceeded 50,000 gallons per minute. Required fire flow for the entire fire area, based on N.B.F.U. standards for localities with comparable population densities, would be 6,100 gallons per minute for a maximum period of ten hours. A total amount of 3,660,000 gallons would satisfy this demand. The actual amounts delivered in the fire area for firefighting purposes was nearly ten times this standard.
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The numbers below are from an update from Cal Fire early today for the Palisades fire only.
Number of Personnel: 2,321
Number of helicopters: 12
Number of engines: 297
Number of dozers: 12
Number of water tenders: 9
Number of hand crews: 44

Link below is Google streetview of the general address for the first report of the Palisades fire.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/oX16DLsLnnL6qD4Q8
 
1934 Maxim said:
I believe the Bel Air / Brentwood fire in November 1961 was the most expensive wildfire in LA history until next week. Nearly 500 homes destroyed. This fire occurred just to the east of the current Palisades fire. From the linked report, there was a great concern at that time that the Bel Air fire would jump its western boundary and start a second conflagration in Pacific Palisades.

Link below is to the City of Los Angeles Fire Department's post-fire investigation and report. There are eerie parallels. Weather conditions were similar, though the winds were significantly lower during the Bel Air fire, only 60 mph..

https://www.lafire.com/famous_fires/1961-1106_BelAirFire/1961-1106_LAFD-Report_BelAirFire.htm

Below is an excerpt from the report on water supply capacities, demand, and usage.



The numbers below are from an update from Cal Fire early today for the Palisades fire only.
Number of Personnel: 2,321
Number of helicopters: 12
Number of engines: 297
Number of dozers: 12
Number of water tenders: 9
Number of hand crews: 44

Link below is Google streetview of the general address for the first report of the Palisades fire.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/oX16DLsLnnL6qD4Q8
Click to expand...

When you look at the numbers of engines deployed, 297, compared to FDNYs Frontline units, it's about double the number of engines FDNY fields on the average day. Just to this 1 fire.
 
These arnt official numbers, just what I gathered from various maps.

LACFD Stations 11, 12, 66, Possibly 67, 76
LACFD Camp #8
LAFD Station 23, 69, Possibly 19
All Destroyed

4 Pasadena Stations Threatened
1 Arcadia Station Threatened
LACFD Camp #2 Threatened
 
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NikFDNY said:
These arnt official numbers, just what I gathered from various maps.

LACFD Stations 11, 12, 66, Possibly 67, 76
LACFD Camp #8
LAFD Station 23, 69, Possibly 19
All Destroyed

4 Pasadena Stations Threatened
1 Arcadia Station Threatened
LACFD Camp #2 Threatened
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What probably hurts even more, is the personal items at the stations the crews had in their lockers. Like pictures, religious items... and that doesn't even count personal vehicles etc
 
Then we have the other Los Angeles brush fire extreme:

It was windy and dry with a temperature of 110 degrees on the afternoon of October 3, 1933. LAFD Westlake Signal Office received calls at 2:26 p.m. from the Glendale Fire Department and a worker in Griffith Park reporting a fire near the golf course clubhouse adjacent to Riverside Drive. Engine 56, Hose 27, two Chief Officers, and 50 Moutain Patrolmen were dispatched.

At the same time there were almost 4,000 LA County welfare relief workers in the park and many of them went down the slope of Dam Canyon to fight the blaze. As they were advancing downhill, the wind suddenly changed direction and drove the fire uphill. Many workers were outrun and trapped. LAFD quickly extinguished the fire. The final toll: 29 workers killed, over 150 sustained non-fatal burns. The area was 47 acres.
 
NikFDNY said:
I belive california actually considers looting a much worse felony during a disaster such as this, but who knows.
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That would be great maybe they have a little more common sense than NYS legislature and Governor. Thanks
 
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