New FDNY Tillers

[Rich@36]

Interesting how Baltimore, Philadelphia and DC run TDAs almost exclusively still

DC has 1 tower, Philly has 4 soon to be 5

 

[GeoC]

No. Fire truck can park anywhere lol

Yes. When I was young we switched with the Engine to do BI. The Chauffeur and OVM stayed with the truck. The other three rode with the Engine. The real loser was the Engine Chauffeurs who rarely got ‘a day off’. The reasoning was parking the rig, usually at a bus stop, hydrant etc the Tillers were and are a long apparatus. The citizens became annoyed with this inconvenience, hence the switch.
As companies started switching to Rear Mounts and Tower Ladders, Company Commanders started requesting that this switch was no longer necessary. And slowly it went away.

 

[68jk09]

I did the BI switch when I was not Tillering or later Driving ...in general the switch wasn't the best idea.

 

[Lt. Q]

Being one of the old timers, I guess most of us did the switch. I worked in a single engine and we had to go switch with a single truck. So when I drove the engine doing BI in the trucks area, we responded from out of our response area. No matter what we had to do never bothered me, because I was living me dream job. Now all I have is my memories, what is left of them.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

That brings up a good question. Leaving the Tower Ladders out of the equation, should the FDNY remained all tillers?

According to my latest Ops Ref Guide there are 69 rear mounts in service. If those had stayed tillers would that required paid driving positions for those units and would that have had a budgetry effect? In other words did FDNY switch to RM to save paying for a second driving position?

 

[RCL]

According to my latest Ops Ref Guide there are 69 rear mounts in service. If those had stayed tillers would that required paid driving positions for those units and would that have had a budgetry effect? In other words did FDNY switch to RM to save paying for a second driving position?

The $69000 becomes is the drivers position a paid position and if so by how much compared to a comparable ff? If were only talking 50 cents per hour, that's fairly negligible. Even a couple of bucks per hour is still fairly negligible when looking at the overall budget. Big question is, what is the average maintenance cost of a tiller vs a rearmount.

 

[Bulldog]

The $69000 becomes is the drivers position a paid position and if so by how much compared to a comparable ff? If were only talking 50 cents per hour, that's fairly negligible. Even a couple of bucks per hour is still fairly negligible when looking at the overall budget. Big question is, what is the average maintenance cost of a tiller vs a rearmount.

Also, the purchase price difference between a RM and a Tiller would have to be considered.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Also, the purchase price difference between a RM and a Tiller would have to be considered.

The 2013 TDA's cost 1.086M each, the cost for 2014 Seagraves RM's were 1.038M, page 238/39 of the 2023 Ops Guide.

 

[RCL]

Just in case anyone was interested.....

 

[3511]

Just in case anyone was interested.....

No matter your preference, THAT is a fire engine.
Can't help but think of my old man as the tiller man in Harlem H&L14 back before world war II... No cover, straight up steering wheel, no windshield, and his butt bigger than the tiny seat. But he did say he enjoyed looking in the second floor tenement windows...😉

 

[jtsjc1]

Let's stop for a few minutes & think this out.
1. Prior to 1964 ALL Fdny truck Co's in 1964 were tillers. In '64' Ladder 1 received the first tower ladder.
2. The list that I added to this website was from 1977. So with that in mind, ladders 27 & 59 all ready had
rear mounts. So they lost their tillers before 77.
3. The answer to the question can be found in FAJ's books FDNY ladder apparatus where it list when Tower
Ladders and rear mounts were assigned during the late 60's & prior to 1977.

If you don't mind me asking which FAJ books were you referring to? I have the book of ALF tillers and 900 series.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

If you don't mind me asking which FAJ books were you referring to? I have the book of ALF tillers and 900 series.

There is also a book on Seagrave rear mounts showing 21 1970 Seagraves purchased as well as a book on ALL FDNY towers, including the ALF's and Sutphens.

 

[jtsjc1]

Thank you!

 

[GeoC]

Tiller trying film from past years

Seinfeld Episodes on Instagram: "Cosmo’s got the caboose!🧑🏻‍🚒🚒 . . . . . #seinfeld #kramer #nyfd #jerryseinfeld #cosmokramer #larrydavid #seinfeldquotes #firefighter #firefighters #firefighterlife #firetruck #seinfeldfan #seinfeldtv #seinfeldmemes #s

5,732 likes, 62 comments - seinfeldepisodes on March 4, 2022: "Cosmo’s got the caboose!🧑🏻‍🚒🚒 . . . . . #seinfeld #kramer #nyfd #jerryseinfeld #cosmokramer #larrydavid #seinfeldquotes #...".

www.instagram.com

 

[soda-acid]

According to my latest Ops Ref Guide there are 69 rear mounts in service. If those had stayed tillers would that required paid driving positions for those units and would that have had a budgetry effect? In other words did FDNY switch to RM to save paying for a second driving position?

On one of my visits to L.A. I was told that one of the reasons they are all tillers was that if they switched to rear mounts the bean counters would use that as an excuse to cut the manning. As if the tillerman just helps drive the rig and does nothing else.

 

[Bulldog]

On one of my visits to L.A. I was told that one of the reasons they are all tillers was that if they switched to rear mounts the bean counters would use that as an excuse to cut the manning. As if the tillerman just helps drive the rig and does nothing else.

That certainly sounds like something that bean counters would do!

 

[Capttomo]

On one of my visits to L.A. I was told that one of the reasons they are all tillers was that if they switched to rear mounts the bean counters would use that as an excuse to cut the manning. As if the tillerman just helps drive the rig and does nothing else.

I don’t doubt that at all. Good strategy by LAFD

 

[FFM1938]

So I suppose the question has to be asked, there are tiller "heavy rescues" on the market and obviously FDNY has not sought them out but does anyone think there a chance of those making entry into the fleet in the future? The current rigs are just about as big as I would think they could be and maneuverability is only going to become more of an issue with the tightening streetscapes.

 

[Capttomo]

So I suppose the question has to be asked, there are tiller "heavy rescues" on the market and obviously FDNY has not sought them out but does anyone think there a chance of those making entry into the fleet in the future? The current rigs are just about as big as I would think they could be and maneuverability is only going to become more of an issue with the tightening streetscapes.

Dallas FD even has a Tiller Haz Mat Unit. However, when you analyze the amount of available compartment space, There is often less compartment space on the tiller bodies than on a full length Tandem Axle Heavy Rescue Body. This is especially true with the non walk thru, walk around bodies with coffin compartments on the roof. In the instance of FDNY, the walk thru bodies provide for much more expedient operations at dive and rope jobs. Members "suit up" enroute to these jobs and arrive at the job ready to hit the water or immediately exit the rig with rope harnesses and rope bags.

 

[Skyler Fire]

So I suppose the question has to be asked, there are tiller "heavy rescues" on the market and obviously FDNY has not sought them out but does anyone think there a chance of those making entry into the fleet in the future? The current rigs are just about as big as I would think they could be and maneuverability is only going to become more of an issue with the tightening streetscapes.

Another reason L169 got the tiller was more room and to carry the SOC support stuff.