Riding Assignments

JohnnyGage

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Hello my fellow friends, I was perusing another site, and a good question popped up maybe someone hear can help: WHEN DID THE FDNY ADOPT RIDING POSITIONS, EX; ROOF, OVM, ETC. Was it before the technical FDNY Bible Ladders 3?
 

memorymaster

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"Johnny" back in the early 60's I recall the truck officer used to chalk it on the board by the house watch desk i.e. Chauff., Tiller, Irons, 6 ft. hook and the "can" man. I'm pretty sure that was the nomenclature back then.
 

lucky

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Not the same subject but close. My uncle was in a truck during the mid fifties and knew that I had an interest in the FDNY.
He told me more than once that I should have been in the firehouse the other night. The bell was under the ladder, rung by a member riding the side. That particular tour they had two members, a chauffeur and a tillerman plus the officer. He laughed that they needed someone to ring the bell, but this was before overtime and minimum manning. I remember that when I eventually went on the job, the bell and the correct ringing of it was very important to certain officers.
 

JohnnyGage

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"Johnny" back in the early 60's I recall the truck officer used to chalk it on the board by the house watch desk i.e. Chauff., Tiller, Irons, 6 ft. hook and the "can" man. I'm pretty sure that was the nomenclature back then.
Thanks Charlie, I'm trying to find out when the dept incorporated these positions and became standard operating procedure.
 

JohnnyGage

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Not the same subject but close. My uncle was in a truck during the mid fifties and knew that I had an interest in the FDNY.
He told me more than once that I should have been in the firehouse the other night. The bell was under the ladder, rung by a member riding the side. That particular tour they had two members, a chauffeur and a tillerman plus the officer. He laughed that they needed someone to ring the bell, but this was before overtime and minimum manning. I remember that when I eventually went on the job, the bell and the correct ringing of it was very important to certain officers.
Yes lucky, the bell cadence was a sign of company pride and was tolled on way back to the firehouse.
 

mack

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Hello my fellow friends, I was perusing another site, and a good question popped up maybe someone hear can help: WHEN DID THE FDNY ADOPT RIDING POSITIONS, EX; ROOF, OVM, ETC. Was it before the technical FDNY Bible Ladders 3?
Hi Dan. The attached Ladder Company assignment list for Adaptive Response periods from 1970 names assignment positions. I do not know any formal date the Department formalized riding lists, but I believe they had been used informally for a long time even though old timers used to talk about less formality staffing companies - the days before minimum manning, riding with 2 guys on the back step, war years (World War I and II) staffing with limited manpower. Adaptive response 2.jpg

Adaptive Response.jpg
 

JohnnyGage

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Thanks Mack, I saw that chart on AR, still had to be something before that to build off of. I sent an e-mail to Chief Manson, we'll see what he comes up with.
 

68jk09

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The wide spread standardization of Riding Positions in Ladders thru out The Job did come about after Ladders 3 was published early 1968 (authored by John O'Reagan the then CPT of LAD*26) however there were some Riding Positions in Units prior to that....i remember as a kid in the mid Fifties riding with my Father in LAD*43 .....they did have positions back then however as Lucky mentioned the manpower was low....i remember in 43 that the Tillerman was also the roof man as most tours they had at the most 4 FFs sometime less....also back then if there were not enough Officers to go around a FF would be designated Acting LT but would still maintain his FF position & carry Tools & work rather than supervise.....i also remember in the early '60s as an Auxiliary in 108 before Minimum Manning there were times when there were only 3 or 4 FFs on the Rig but there was always a separate Position who was the Roof Man & usually not the Tillerman....at times also the Officer would carry the Irons.....once in awhile depending who the Officer was i got to be the Can Man......back then i did not pay much attention to the ENGs as far as Positions so i am not sure what they did pre planned other than the MPO.
 

lucky

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Just to take the lack of personnel for positions a step further, I remember a story from my father about being detailed to an engine in the mid forties. The was no true retirement age then and he was on the back step with one other fireman who he had to hold onto because the other man suffered from arthritis and had trouble grabbing the bar. No annual medicals.
 

mack

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My father entered the job in the 1950s. He used to say that they used to frequently ride with two guys on the back step. There was no minimum manning in contracts. I remember assignment boards with names at housewatch areas in the late 60s and 70s, added to the board or boards listing all boxes companies responded to on initial alarm

Some old housewatch desks with boards of boxes assigned:

L 20
Ladder 20 housewatch 1908.jpg

WD Housewatch.jpg

.FDNY-Alarm.jpg

Ladder 3
L 3 fh housewatch.jpg

E 234
April 12 Poppie .jpg
 
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raybrag

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Joe . . . the last picture . . . blue hat, but 2 stripes on his sleeve? What rank is that?
 

mack

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Captain Mike Materia prior to making BC.

Picture taken following Dr MLK death - note 5-5-5-5 signal on housewatch blackboard for his death.

Housewatch used to mark down all alarms received by telegraph alarm (RTA) - the bells - in chalk on blackboard. Everything was silent as the bells tapped in no matter where you were in the firehouse.
 

mack

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Additional pictures of Engine 234 - Command Post was in progress. 1968.

April 12, 1968 Command Post.jpg


April 12 1968 waiting .jpg
 

68jk09

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Joe . . . the last picture . . . blue hat, but 2 stripes on his sleeve? What rank is that?
CPT.... The Dark Uniform Cap was worn by FDNY Officers as part of the cooler weather Regulation Uniform....i don't remember what year that went out along with LT's & CPT's wearing a Gray shirt during the later night tour hours.....(Dan Tracy when he was CPT of 110 continued to wear the Gray shirt at night well into the late '70s) .
 

skiLB

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The wide spread standardization of Riding Positions in Ladders thru out The Job did come about after Ladders 3 was published early 1968 (authored by John O'Reagan the then CPT of LAD*26) however there were some Riding Positions in Units prior to that....i remember as a kid in the mid Fifties riding with my Father in LAD*43 .....they did have positions back then however as Lucky mentioned the manpower was low....i remember in 43 that the Tillerman was also the roof man as most tours they had at the most 4 FFs sometime less....also back then if there were not enough Officers to go around a FF would be designated Acting LT but would still maintain his FF position & carry Tools & work rather than supervise.....i also remember in the early '60s as an Auxiliary in 108 before Minimum Manning there were times when there were only 3 or 4 FFs on the Rig but there was always a separate Position who was the Roof Man & usually not the Tillerman....at times also the Officer would carry the Irons.....once in awhile depending who the Officer was i got to be the Can Man......back then i did not pay much attention to the ENGs as far as Positions so i am not sure what they did pre planned other than the MPO.
Gr8 info/history & pics by all the members.
 

raybrag

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Captain, Ray, dont let the navy colored cap fool ya, back then FDNY had a winter uniform.
Thanks, Dan (and Chief JK). I should have known. Back then the USAF had summer & winter uniforms, too.
 

68jk09

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In one of the 234 pictures above ......the Hose Trays on the wall are visible....the FH had no hose Tower & the spare or freshly washed Hose was laid on these racks for drying / storage.......the Trays were still there when we R*2 moved into the FH in 1985.....we subsequently removed them (we only had 2 Lengths of Hose on our rig plus none of the FDNY Hose was Cotton Jacketed anymore & did not require drying ) to allow gear racks to be placed there & we left some of the upper pieces of steel angle supports to attach bars to dry wet Scuba Gear from.....in another photo of the wall alongside the HW area the clock is covering the stenciling of the old 13- 1-13 etc Bell Signals sent to activate the rooftop Air Raid Siren as an Alert & or an All Clear in case of an Air Raid during WW2.....that board is mounted in the new R*2 FH......MACK Thanks some good History (as usual) in these photos.
 
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