Seagrave to take up new contract over KME

baileyjeff

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
756
So Seagrave has the contract for 12 pumpers. Is FDNY keeping Seagrave or are they looking to go back to KME?
 

deff64

New member
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
22
Love them or hate them, Seagraves are built well and take a beating.  I think KME may have gotten in over their head with the FDNY bid.  Spec's are pretty strick and the warranty with the vehicles causes most companies not bid.  I commend KME for taking on the task but I am truly a long time Seagrave fan.  There are not very many manufacturers that build a total stainless vehicle so this generally limits who can bid.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
79
Sfdc111 said:
downtownmedic said:
Boston had a TON of problems with their KME's, but they were almost entirely related to the Navistar MaxxForce engines used.  Eventually they removed almost all of them from service.

Boston bought in batches, a rescue, 3 engines, 3 engines, 5 engines, 3 rear mounts, a rear mount, a tower, a rescue, and finally an high pressure engines that took 2 years to take delivery because BFD fought the truck the whole way. Out of the 18 KMEs purchased only the rescues, the HP pump assigned to 22 and the last rear mount assigned to 16 remain in front line service. New twin rescues are being specd out now to replace both KMEs and a e-one metro is on order to replace the KME rear mount. Some of the KMEs remain as spares, some have been disposed of.

So do you know if they are getting two E-One tandem axle Heavy Rescues?
 

Sfdc111

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
59
I dont believe the specs are complete yet on the rescues.



SYRACUSETRUCK3-2010 said:
Sfdc111 said:
downtownmedic said:
Boston had a TON of problems with their KME's, but they were almost entirely related to the Navistar MaxxForce engines used.  Eventually they removed almost all of them from service.

Boston bought in batches, a rescue, 3 engines, 3 engines, 5 engines, 3 rear mounts, a rear mount, a tower, a rescue, and finally an high pressure engines that took 2 years to take delivery because BFD fought the truck the whole way. Out of the 18 KMEs purchased only the rescues, the HP pump assigned to 22 and the last rear mount assigned to 16 remain in front line service. New twin rescues are being specd out now to replace both KMEs and a e-one metro is on order to replace the KME rear mount. Some of the KMEs remain as spares, some have been disposed of.

So do you know if they are getting two E-One tandem axle Heavy Rescues?
 

Jedi1973

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
79
I think Bostons new E ones look the part, they look like a working truck and practical and tough.

With regards KME, I know their biggest customer is LAcoFD, who have used KME exclusively for front line engines and trucks for a few years with hundreds of them! Seems there are not many complaints from the crews. But perhaps it was the tights constraints and demands that, quite rightly, the FDNY puts on manufacturers. Everything is done on cost and best value nowadays, which as we all know does not mean best quality and durability. Be interesting to wind the clock forwards 10-12 years and see how man y of the KME engines are still on frontline duty or booted into the reserve pool!!

Jarrod
 

BCR

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
554
Jedi1973 said:
I think Bostons new E ones look the part, they look like a working truck and practical and tough.

With regards KME, I know their biggest customer is LAcoFD, who have used KME exclusively for front line engines and trucks for a few years with hundreds of them! Seems there are not many complaints from the crews. But perhaps it was the tights constraints and demands that, quite rightly, the FDNY puts on manufacturers. Everything is done on cost and best value nowadays, which as we all know does not mean best quality and durability. Be interesting to wind the clock forwards 10-12 years and see how man y of the KME engines are still on frontline duty or booted into the reserve pool!!

Jarrod

Quality and performance of the rigs had nothing to do with why KME lost the contract. Over all the word is everyone was very satisfied with the engines. The sole reason the lost the contract was the delivery schedule. They could not meet it and refused to push other customers back.
 

Jedi1973

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
79
With all this in mind, will this mean a delay in the replacement engines being built tested and going out to the companies?

Secondly one assumes they will be Seagrave's Marauder II?

Thirdly, in future bids, will KME be allowed to bid for future apparatus or precluded if that is allowed under law?? And if so and they are the lowest bidder, which, I might be wrong, seems to be the way manufacturers win bids, will FDNY have to go with them or will FDNY have the option to go with their own preferred bidder who might cost a little more?

Seagrave has proved its footing over two decades for engines and over many decades for rearmounts and tillers. In the case of the engines and TLs, taking up the mantle from the much loved and proven Mack's.

JT
 

Bulldog

Bulldog
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
1,935
Jedi1973 said:
Whats your source?

That would suggest a none raised rear cab?

JT
The Split cab was specifically designed for FDNY. Many of the houses don't have room for the entire cab to tilt up routine maintenance. I don't believe that a raised crew compartment is available with the chassis. The only rig I've seen was a raised crew compartment was actually the rescue that Louisville got and that was pretty much custom all the way.
 

Jedi1973

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
79
Sorry guys forgive me for been thick... so does this mean that Seagrave cannot and will not be able to produce the split cab  with the rear roof anymore and any future fdny seagrave orders will be for the flat cab?

The benefits of raised crew cabs over here in the UK were negated by new health and safety laws stating we were no longer allowed to rig on the way to calls while the pump was in motion,we  had to get fully rigged before boarding.

JT
 

Lebby

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
562
Bulldog said:
Jedi1973 said:
Whats your source?

That would suggest a none raised rear cab?

JT
The Split cab was specifically designed for FDNY. Many of the houses don't have room for the entire cab to tilt up routine maintenance. I don't believe that a raised crew compartment is available with the chassis. The only rig I've seen was a raised crew compartment was actually the rescue that Louisville got and that was pretty much custom all the way.

Seagrave will put a raised roof on any chassis as a extra option, it isn't a matter of it being a Marauder II, Attacker or Capitol. Instead, it is what ever the customer requests in the spec. (Just look at some of their recent deliveries either via their website or social media). Manufactures are now held to the quality of their work more so then the options they can include. For these days most manufactures can do similar things with the exception some of proprietary technologies i.e the Aerialscope, Squrt, etc. (Although they have there knockoffs).
 

fdnycand89

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
112
In 2008 the first batch of seagraves with raised roofs were called the maurader chassis. They were split tilt cabs and eventually were renamed to the attacker chassis by seagrave. The difference now is full tilt seagrave cabs are marauder and the split tilt which fdny uses are the attacker chassis.... I believe both offer raised or flat roofs ..... seagrave just introduced the capital chassis not sure of breakdown on them
 

baileyjeff

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
756
Anyone have any idea if Seagrave was awarded any other contract for any other pumpers or just this batch?
 

tperez102

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
261
Hello All so i get the Contract Process here in the City , but can i point to Washington D.C. Fire. They presently have a very nice mix of both 2018 Seagraves pumpers and 2018 Pierce Velocity Pumpers. Also a Mix of Heavy Rescues. Is this by design ? Or just a real time street test of both suppliers? Why not give it a try here? 
 

Jedi1973

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
79
Hello

I am not serving FDNY but do have a bit of insight into how the organisation works.

For what I can gather its a brave soul that takes on an FDNY contract for engines or ladders!!

It seems yes the lowest bidder gets the contract.. but the guys and gals on the streets who use the rigs only get the best from that manufacturer. Im sure the the serving members on here will challenge this but from a manufacturer building a piece and it actually getting to the point of FDNY members using it... I get the impression its a long long process and only the best of the chosen manufacterer gets onto the apparatus floor.

FDNY knows what it wants and takes no prisoners and will cast asside a provider. For all its faults I get the impression FDNY will not never compramise on apparatus and crew safety.

But.. as I say I might be about to be destroyed by serving FDNY members!!!

JT.( nerveously!!)
 

fdnycand89

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
112
tperez102 said:
Hello All so i get the Contract Process here in the City , but can i point to Washington D.C. Fire. They presently have a very nice mix of both 2018 Seagraves pumpers and 2018 Pierce Velocity Pumpers. Also a Mix of Heavy Rescues. Is this by design ? Or just a real time street test of both suppliers? Why not give it a try here?


Pierce does not offer a stainless steel cab .. that?s why you don?t see them bidding on fdny rigs.
 

wfd444

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
177
That's NOT why. You assume incorrectly without knowing the real reason. It is because they are NOT interested in losing money on a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty my friend.
 

Lebby

Active member
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
562
fdnycand89 said:
tperez102 said:
Hello All so i get the Contract Process here in the City , but can i point to Washington D.C. Fire. They presently have a very nice mix of both 2018 Seagraves pumpers and 2018 Pierce Velocity Pumpers. Also a Mix of Heavy Rescues. Is this by design ? Or just a real time street test of both suppliers? Why not give it a try here?


Pierce does not offer a stainless steel cab .. that?s why you don?t see them bidding on fdny rigs.

DCFD has old Pierce Lances and new Arrow XTs. No Velocities.
 

fdnycand89

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
112
wfd444 said:
That's NOT why. You assume incorrectly without knowing the real reason. It is because they are NOT interested in losing money on a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty my friend.

That?s also true ...but no steel cab is also a reason
 
Top