Second sections

[grumpy grizzly]

During the War Years how were the second sections of Ladder companies, such as Ladder 26, dispatched? Both respond on a job in their still area or did they alternate.

 

[lucky]

All second sections throughout the city switched from front to back or vice versa at 9AM each day.
Engines 217 & 217-2 worked as follows:
All old first due boxes became first and second due with the front piece first due.
All old second due boxes became second and third due with the front piece second due.
All old third due boxes stayed third due with only the front piece responding.
The Engines in the area that were second due and replaced by the back piece came off the card.
The Engines in the area that were Third due and replaced by the back piece came off the card
You could take a Brooklyn box like 901 at Lewis and Gates. Engines 217 & 217-2 were first and second due.
Eng.214 was blocks away but came off the card. and wouldn't respond if the whole block was burning.
This was to keep the numbers down to a respectable level.
The section up front also went on multiple alarms and relocations.

 

[mack]

All second sections throughout the city switched from front to back or vice versa at 9AM each day.
Engines 217 & 217-2 worked as follows:
All old first due boxes became first and second due with the front piece first due.
All old second due boxes became second and third due with the front piece second due.
All old third due boxes stayed third due with only the front piece responding.
The Engines in the area that were second due and replaced by the back piece came off the card.
The Engines in the area that were Third due and replaced by the back piece came off the card
You could take a Brooklyn box like 901 at Lewis and Gates. Engines 217 & 217-2 were first and second due.
Eng.214 was blocks away but came off the card. and wouldn't respond if the whole block was burning.
This was to keep the numbers down to a respectable level.
The section up front also went on multiple alarms and relocations.

Thanks Lucky. The R&W numbers from the 1970s reflect that rotation.



There were also several eras when FDNY used 2nd sections, combined engine companies and combined companies which had different purposes for forming multiple sections and different response assignments.

There were expansion periods when NYC grew in the late 1890s and FDNY incorporated Brooklyn and LIC paid departments and replaced many volunteer departments. FDNY used Combined Engine Companies to replace former engine and truck companies in less built-up neighborhoods with combined FDNY engine companies. Those sections responded together.

An example: Engine 44 and Ladder 16, paid Brooklyn Fire Department Companies organized in 1895 on W 15th Street in Coney Island became FDNY fire companies in 1898 when Brooklyn became part of NYC. FDNY combined the previous BFD engine and Truck companies and formed Combined Engine 244. This is an unusual 1921 picture of the truck section of Combined Engine 244 in Coney Island. The truck is painted with H&L 244 markings even though it was a section of a combined engine company and there was never a Ladder 244:



E 244 former firehouse:





Another example of 2nd sections in the early1900s: Many firehouses which were not close to near-by companies also had 2nd engine sections organized in the 1900s to provide appropriate 1st due response. Sheepshead Bay Engine 246, for example, had 2 engine sections, and the 2nd section later became Engine 327. Coney Island Engine 245 also had a 2nd section for many years which became Engine 326 in the same W 8th Street firehouse. Many other Brooklyn and Queens companies had 2nd sections for long periods in the 1900s. These companies would have responded together on assigned boxes.

Engine 245-1, Engine 245-2, H&L 169, Bn 43:


Engine 264 in Far Rockaway was an example of another 2-section engine company due to distant location.



Firehouse originally had an engine and a truck in 1913:




There is also a similar history of 2 section battalions which took place during the War Years. Battalion sections rotated as described by Lucky.

Example Battalion 44-1 and Battalion 44-2 in 1966. Combined, they had 9195 runs in 1966:

 

[mack]

Engine 88-1 and Engine 88-2 frontpieces:

 

[mack]

Engine 88-2 apparatus:

 

[mack]

Ladder 103-2:

 

[mack]

Ladder 8 was a 2-section truck company. Note original 2-bay firehouse before it was reduced when road widened.

 

[mack]

Engine 91-2:

 

[mack]

Engine 50-2 member - War Years:

 

[mack]

Engine 41-2 operating - pre-Squad 41 War Years era:

 

[mack]

Ladder 27-2:

 

[mack]

 

[mack]

Engine 30 was a 3-section engine company in the early 1900s.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Thanks Lucky. The R&W numbers from the 1970s reflect that rotation.

View attachment 15913

There were also several eras when FDNY used 2nd sections, combined engine companies and combined companies which had different purposes for forming multiple sections and different response assignments.

There were expansion periods when NYC grew in the late 1890s and FDNY incorporated Brooklyn and LIC paid departments and replaced many volunteer departments. FDNY used Combined Engine Companies to replace former engine and truck companies in less built-up neighborhoods with combined FDNY engine companies. Those sections responded together.

An example: Engine 44 and Ladder 16, paid Brooklyn Fire Department Companies organized in 1895 on W 15th Street in Coney Island became FDNY fire companies in 1898 when Brooklyn became part of NYC. FDNY combined the previous BFD engine and Truck companies and formed Combined Engine 244. This is an unusual 1921 picture of the truck section of Combined Engine 244 in Coney Island. The truck is painted with H&L 244 markings even though it was a section of a combined engine company and there was never a Ladder 244:

View attachment 15914

E 244 former firehouse:

View attachment 15916



Another example of 2nd sections in the early1900s: Many firehouses which were not close to near-by companies also had 2nd engine sections organized in the 1900s to provide appropriate 1st due response. Sheepshead Bay Engine 246, for example, had 2 engine sections, and the 2nd section later became Engine 327. Coney Island Engine 245 also had a 2nd section for many years which became Engine 326 in the same W 8th Street firehouse. Many other Brooklyn and Queens companies had 2nd sections for long periods in the 1900s. These companies would have responded together on assigned boxes.

Engine 245-1, Engine 245-2, H&L 169, Bn 43:
View attachment 15922

Engine 264 in Far Rockaway was an example of another 2-section engine company due to distant location.
View attachment 15923


Firehouse originally had an engine and a truck in 1913:

View attachment 15924


There is also a similar history of 2 section battalions which took place during the War Years. Battalion sections rotated as described by Lucky.

Example Battalion 44-1 and Battalion 44-2 in 1966. Combined, they had 9195 runs in 1966:

View attachment 15925

Thanks Lucky. The R&W numbers from the 1970s reflect that rotation.

View attachment 15913

There were also several eras when FDNY used 2nd sections, combined engine companies and combined companies which had different purposes for forming multiple sections and different response assignments.

There were expansion periods when NYC grew in the late 1890s and FDNY incorporated Brooklyn and LIC paid departments and replaced many volunteer departments. FDNY used Combined Engine Companies to replace former engine and truck companies in less built-up neighborhoods with combined FDNY engine companies. Those sections responded together.

An example: Engine 44 and Ladder 16, paid Brooklyn Fire Department Companies organized in 1895 on W 15th Street in Coney Island became FDNY fire companies in 1898 when Brooklyn became part of NYC. FDNY combined the previous BFD engine and Truck companies and formed Combined Engine 244. This is an unusual 1921 picture of the truck section of Combined Engine 244 in Coney Island. The truck is painted with H&L 244 markings even though it was a section of a combined engine company and there was never a Ladder 244:

View attachment 15914

E 244 former firehouse:

View attachment 15916



Another example of 2nd sections in the early1900s: Many firehouses which were not close to near-by companies also had 2nd engine sections organized in the 1900s to provide appropriate 1st due response. Sheepshead Bay Engine 246, for example, had 2 engine sections, and the 2nd section later became Engine 327. Coney Island Engine 245 also had a 2nd section for many years which became Engine 326 in the same W 8th Street firehouse. Many other Brooklyn and Queens companies had 2nd sections for long periods in the 1900s. These companies would have responded together on assigned boxes.

Engine 245-1, Engine 245-2, H&L 169, Bn 43:
View attachment 15922

Engine 264 in Far Rockaway was an example of another 2-section engine company due to distant location.
View attachment 15923


Firehouse originally had an engine and a truck in 1913:

View attachment 15924


There is also a similar history of 2 section battalions which took place during the War Years. Battalion sections rotated as described by Lucky.

Example Battalion 44-1 and Battalion 44-2 in 1966. Combined, they had 9195 runs in 1966:

View attachment 15925

Somehow I knew that when I posted that question Mack would supply the information, as well as other informed members.

 

[Disp51]

From December 1961 Training Bulletin Hose 2

 

[fdhistorian]

Thanks Lucky. The R&W numbers from the 1970s reflect that rotation.

There were also several eras when FDNY used 2nd sections.

Horse drawn era 2nd sections:

Engine 003-2 Disbanded 1892
Engine 034-2 Disbanded 1894
Engine 028-2 Disbanded 1900
Engine 012-2 Disbanded 1909
Engine 030-3 Disbanded 1911
Engine 080-2 Disbanded 1915
Engine 017-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 072-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 208-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 215-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 224-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 251-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 279-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 093-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 020-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 287-2 Disbanded 1918
Engine 027-2 Disbanded 1921

Ladder 006-2 Disbanded 1883
Ladder 009-2 Disbanded 1889
Ladder 013-2 Disbanded 1915
Ladder 028-2 Disbanded 1915
Ladder 008-2 Disbanded 1918
Ladder 035-2 Disbanded 1918

 

[fdhistorian]

Thanks Lucky. The R&W numbers from the 1970s reflect that rotation.

There were also several eras when FDNY used 2nd sections.

Another example of 2nd sections in the early1900s: Many firehouses which were not close to near-by companies also had 2nd engine sections organized in the 1900s to provide appropriate 1st due response. Sheepshead Bay Engine 246, for example, had 2 engine sections, and the 2nd section later became Engine 327. Coney Island Engine 245 also had a 2nd section for many years which became Engine 326 in the same W 8th Street firehouse. Many other Brooklyn and Queens companies had 2nd sections for long periods in the 1900s. These companies would have responded together on assigned boxes.

1900's 2nd sections:

Engine 005-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 007-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 013-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 016-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 018-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 026-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 030-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 031-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 033-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 246-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 264-2 Disbanded 1939
Engine 331-2 Disbanded 1941
Engine 076-2 Disbanded 1946
Engine 283-2 Disbanded 1946
Engine 245-2 Disbanded 1955
Engine 052-2 Disbanded 1956

Ladder 002-2 Disbanded 1939
Ladder 005-2 Disbanded 1939
Ladder 020-2 Disbanded 1939
Ladder 021-2 Disbanded 1939
Ladder 022-2 Disbanded 1957

 

[fdhistorian]

During the War Years how were the second sections of Ladder companies, such as Ladder 26, dispatched? Both respond on a job in their still area or did they alternate.

War Years 2nd sections

Engine 046-2 Disbanded 1969
Engine 225-2 Disbanded 1969
Engine 070-2 Disbanded 1971
Engine 088-2 Disbanded 1972
Engine 217-2 Disbanded 1972
Engine 233-2 Disbanded 1972
Engine 041-2 Disbanded 1974
Engine 050-2 Disbanded 1974
Engine 091-2 Disbanded 1974

Ladder 027-2 Disbanded 1972
Ladder 017-2 Disbanded 1974
Ladder 026-2 Disbanded 1974
Ladder 103-2 Disbanded 1974

Battalion 18-2 Disbanded 1967
Battalion 03-2 Disbanded 1969
Battalion 12-2 Disbanded 1969
Battalion 14-2 Disbanded 1969
Battalion 37-2 Disbanded 1969
Battalion 39-2 Disbanded 1969
Battalion 44-2 Disbanded 1969

 

[fdhistorian]

New units established on the same day that a 2nd section company was disbanded.

Early 1900's

Engine 27-2 became Engine 301
Engine 72-2 became Ladder 146
Engine 80-2 became Engine 293

Ladder 28-2 became Ladder 142
Ladder 35-2 became Ladder 143

Mid 1900's

Engine 245-2 became Engine 326
Engine 246-2 became Engine 327
Engine 264-2 became Engine 328
Engine 287-2 became Engine 292

War Years

Engine 41-2 became Engine 66
Engine 46-2 became Engine 88-2
Engine 50-2 became Ladder 61
Engine 88-2 became Engine 72
Engine 233-2 became Ladder 176

Ladder 27-2 became Ladder 58

Battalion 3-2 became Battalion 27
Battalion 12-2 became Battalion 25
Battalion 14-2 became Battalion 26
Battalion 18-2 became Battalion 56
Battalion 37-2 became Battalion 28
Battalion 39-2 became Battalion 29
Battalion 44-2 became Battalion 58

 

[fdhistorian]

Thanks Lucky. The R&W numbers from the 1970s reflect that rotation.

There were expansion periods when NYC grew in the late 1890s and FDNY incorporated Brooklyn and LIC paid departments and replaced many volunteer departments. FDNY used Combined Engine Companies to replace former engine and truck companies in less built-up neighborhoods with combined FDNY engine companies. Those sections responded together.

An example: Engine 44 and Ladder 16, paid Brooklyn Fire Department Companies organized in 1895 on W 15th Street in Coney Island became FDNY fire companies in 1898 when Brooklyn became part of NYC. FDNY combined the previous BFD engine and Truck companies and formed Combined Engine 244. This is an unusual 1921 picture of the truck section of Combined Engine 244 in Coney Island. The truck is painted with H&L 244 markings even though it was a section of a combined engine company and there was never a Ladder 244:

Combination companies - Engines 38, 43, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 52, 61, 62, 68, 69, 70, 75, 82, 96, 151, 311

Brooklyn FD - Engines 40/240, 41/241, 42/242, 43/243, 44/244, 46/246, 47/247, 48/248, 50/250, 53/253, 55/255, 57/257, 164/264, 176/276

Combination Fire Companies - 121, 131, 151