3/22/26 Queens 2nd Alarm Crash Box 0037

DanielRJ3 said:
Is this a regular airport 2nd alarm rundown? I know nothing about the airport stuff; surely 3 Rescues and 3 Satellites (+ the Super Pumper) is extreme?
Click to expand...
From my understanding of it, one of the main priorities of the FDNY at an aircraft box is to be able to secure a water supply for PAPD and be able to relay it. While yes PAPD can shuttle water and foam back and forth, that's not nearly as efficient as bringing the water directly to the scene, thus the need for the Hose Wagon + 3 Satellites
 
^^^Establishing a Water Source is very important & a main function of the FDNY Response to an Aircraft incident.....Another big priority at an Aircraft incident often is access to the interior of the Fuselage for Search & Removal & or Extinguishment .......FDNY Aerial Ladders & Tower Ladders are important to have on the scene.
 
Does anyone have the run card for PAPD? It would be interesting to see their response . . . especially since they had another incident at the same time.
 
NikFDNY said:
From my understanding of it, one of the main priorities of the FDNY at an aircraft box is to be able to secure a water supply for PAPD and be able to relay it. While yes PAPD can shuttle water and foam back and forth, that's not nearly as efficient as bringing the water directly to the scene, thus the need for the Hose Wagon + 3 Satellites
Click to expand...
Please forgive me for asking but other than drafting are there water sources (hydrants) near the runways? Areas away from the buildings, terminals, etc.
 
Spanner said:
Please forgive me for asking but other than drafting are there water sources (hydrants) near the runways? Areas away from the buildings, terminals, etc.
Click to expand...
The FD Chief has to ask the PAPD IC to have their units guide FD units to hydrants to establish water supply. I would assume that there wouldnt be hydrants near the runway
 
Also the FDNY can help with hazmat litigation ( if there is fuel leaking or a hydrolic spill ) assist in conducting searches , using ladders to provide access to aircraft cabins , and assting ems in treatment of patients and to help evacuate them away from the plane to ems
 
I had the sad duty of responding, during my years in the FDNY to 3 major Air crashes. Lessons learned:
Response takes time due to getting airport Police to escort FD apparatus to the scene if the incident is on the airport taxiways or runways.
Stretching large amounts of Large Diameter Hose is often required, so call alot of help.
Hazardous Material are ALWAYS involved in any serious air crash, and sometimes the cause.
Call more help than you ever think you are going to need. = Multiple Alarms, chances are you will need them all.
Use Foam monitors/Foam lines to protect the pathway into and out of the aircraft, DOORS.
No Foam use large caliber water and handline to stream to protect the pathways & doors to and from the aircraft.
Be aware of injured people laying under any foam blanket, survivors have been run over by crash/rescue vehicles.
Keep the wind at your back, if possible, when approaching the aircraft/scene. Keep track of the direction and velocity of the wind at all times.
Consider the need to rescue victims from the water, most airports are near water.
Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
 
NikFDNY said:
The FD Chief has to ask the PAPD IC to have their units guide FD units to hydrants to establish water supply. I would assume that there wouldnt be hydrants near the runway
Click to expand...
There are, but there few and far in-between. At 1 point and i dont know if it's changed or not but on 269 and 37 certain units are designated as drafting companies. E331 is/was 1 on 269.
 
Not to take away from the seriousness of the current LGA Incident but another issue to be aware of at certain Plane incidents in or near water is the rise & fall of Tides......I responded to the March 1992 Crash at LGA... the Plane had been somewhat airborne from takeoff when something happened ...it then landed skidding along the ground parallel to Flushing Bay a good distance hitting & completely demolishing a Pump House then veering / skidding left & over the berm & into the Water on Fire with a portion of the bottom of the fuselage ripped open.......it was only a short distance from the berm & initially it was low tide....when we arrived we were ordered to bring our Hurst Cutters to the Plane....a good portion of the upper half of it was above the water line...initially we could walk to the Plane with the cutters & the Hurst Generator....there were a lot of large rocks in the area allowing the Generator to be placed on one & held in place by two FFs ...not too long into our operation (we were still on the original Tank of Fuel ) the water was getting noticeably higher from the incoming Tide....the Generator was still running OK however at one point the FF steadying it on a large rock was having difficulty so a second FF began to assist him both holding the generator out of the water until one of them lost his footing & wound up under the water w/ the generator on him...he was able to get up but fully water & Jet Fuel soaked...AC Burns RIP 9-11 was the IC at that point & was watching from shore & now ordered us out of the water....the Generator was somehow wedged under water between rocks or the hydraulic hose had got hooked around something.....the other end of the hose had the cutters still attached but now had been passed into the plane....Chief Burns wanted everybody back on shore ...when i told him on the HT that we did not have our equipment retrieved yet he said "leave it & get back here now" so we did & the stuff was never seen again....replaced within a day from Tech Services. ....my point was.... add Tides to the list of things to be cognizant of .
 
3hats said:
I believe when there is a box alarm at LGA or JFK Z its an automatic 2nd alarm.
Click to expand...
Its.a specifically modified 2nd. There's 3 satellites with their transport engines, hose wagon with its associated transport engine, foam task Force, 2 rescues at least 2 squads i think, 2 marine units plus numerous other specialty units.
 
3hats said:
I believe when there is a box alarm at LGA or JFK Z its an automatic 2nd alarm.
Click to expand...
RCL said:
Its.a specifically modified 2nd. There's 3 satellites with their transport engines, hose wagon with its associated transport engine, foam task Force, 2 rescues at least 2 squads i think, 2 marine units plus numerous other specialty units.
Click to expand...
I've heard it as a 2-2 worth of Engines and Trucks and a 3-3 worth of Special Equipment.
 
Darrell said:
I've heard it as a 2-2 worth of Engines and Trucks and a 3-3 worth of Special Equipment.
Click to expand...
Its different then that. Its tailored specifically for anything the airports can throw at FDNY. A normal 2 or above has 1 satellite. There's 3- 4,2,6, plus the hose wagon(308) initially assigned. Theorettically 4 including the hose wagon even if it doesn't have the full equipment load out. Average 2s+ dont have 2 rescues, 2 squads, a foam task force 2 marine units, plus special equipment like command units etc.
 
- The emergency Truck 1 was responding to was a United flight that had rejected two take-off attempts on Runway 13 and was on the east side of the field. With fumes in the cabin they needed someone to make sure their brakes weren't on fire.

- The landing weight of the CRJ900 was between 60.000 and 70,000 pounds.

- In the 15 minutes prior to the crash LaGuardia had six take-offs and seven landings...just before midnight on a Sunday.

- Reportedly, ABD-S technology exists for collision avoidance with ground vehicles that's already used by airliners airborne (TCAS).
 
Random question.

I have seen on this forum in recent years of the FDNY in a staging area before they get into the airport. Mainly for nothing major as this situation.

How are the FDNY and NYPD able to work so good together but when it comes to PAPD it doesn’t look seamless?
 
billy17 said:
Random question.

I have seen on this forum in recent years of the FDNY in a staging area before they get into the airport. Mainly for nothing major as this situation.

How are the FDNY and NYPD able to work so good together but when it comes to PAPD it doesn’t look seamless?
Click to expand...
Its not what it looks like. Airports are entirely different animals. Basically you have to have special permission and training just to drive on the field, and that's to work there. The PAPD has their own set of sogs. When its determined that FDNY is needed, the units are staging at their main PAFD building. (JFKs 269. Im sure LGA has a similar staging point) They are led out to the incident as the PAPD or airport ops units can talk directly to the tower for permissions. And go straight to the scene. The 51( JFK 1st due bat) and probably the 1st due to LGA I beleive has a tower or PAPD radio in their truck, so they can coordinate on the way or while staging. What you dont want, is 20 some odd fd units driving around trying to find the best way to an incident, while at the same time aircraft may still be moving trying to get back to gates, or being directed away from the incident. Even sitting still, a jet engine idling can ruin your day. Even more so if you hit an aircraft.

Both LGA and JFK have training drills every so often. Kennedys is Operation Safe and I forget what LGAs is called but its full sized mock mci plane crash with "victims" made up to look real. I've done several with the scouts at both. They run the whole thing like real over 2 or 3 hours. PA comes out, puts out some real fire, FD is escorted onto the field and puts out the rest, and all of the victims are triaged etc. They get along very well. It just looks different from the outside.
 
There's also the fact, unless it's already been said, all fdny knew at first is a port authority Ruth had been hit by plane and was likely out of action, making they were likely figuring on,"we're fighting a potential aircraft fire with one of the better options already off the table, we're going to need extra hands on this."

Forgive me if I spoke wrong, I'm just saying how I think they could have seen it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top