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I agree.
1/24/26 Bronx 10-77/4th Alarm/10-60/10-66 Box 4399
- Thread starter 10-75 Da Box!
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Why were there so many Engines (17 engines) assigned on the 4th alarm which weren't special called? Did the 4th alarm just add a 3rd, 4th alarm and 10-66 assignment's worth of engines onto the job?
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This was probably one of the greatest responses prompted by a single transmission.
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Once again if it Quacks like a Duck and Walks like a Duck then it most likely IS a Duck. The idea of adding so many units to an incident and not transmitting the next alarm or alarms is suspect. This is clearly a way of keeping the public and perhaps the city council, in the dark about the very real fire problems in NYC. This fire was a 7th alarm + no matter what they called it. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
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It looks like it they went from a second to a 4th on top of the 10-66
Capt, if I can offer a contrary view: the Deputy Mayor, head of OEM, Fire Commissioner, and several staff chiefs were on scene, and the fire was all over the news and on social media. Who is being kept in the dark?
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When I was a covering Lieutenant and working teaching at Proby School in the mid 1980; s. I left the Rock = FDNY Fire Academy, on my way home and I Buffed an Explosion in a in a midrise Multiple Dwelling in Manhattan just off the Harlem River/FDR Drive and just north of the Manhattan exit off the Triborough (Now R.F.K.) bridge. There were multiple injuries and the side walls of some apartments on the top floor, were blown down 6 or more floors to the areas below. This would have been in 1988 or 1989. Seems this was a similar situation to this tragic 4th alarm. In that incident no fire resulted, but it was a Gas Explosion, I later found out. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
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The people you mentioned above the Deputy Mayor, the head of OEM, and the Fire Commissioner, does not include the people of the city of N.Y. and the City Counsel. Keep the statics down and then try to go and get more funding for things like, reopening fire units, more 5-man manning units, more Squads (One per Division). Brothers and sisters just reflect on the number units in the FDNY that have been closed and never reopened. I worked in some units still closed including, Eng. 27, Eng. 17, Eng. 85, Squad 3. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
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They had a 10-77, 10-60, and 10-66 all packaged into one. Remember you can always return what you don’t need. Better to get them on the way than be behind the 8 ball. And although not affecting the response assignments, extremely brutal weather and water supply concerns. Meanwhile the brothers in Ukraine are dealing with situations like this a couple of times a week with least than a full first alarm assignment. They wish they had the resources we have here. Stay safe and warm
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This was on the dispatchers discretion right? With the 3rd, 4th and 10-66(No Code?) it should've only amounted to 10 Engines?
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I have a photo of the firefighters in the Ukraine on the wall just above my head, searching a collapsed, bombed building. Firefighters in the tradition of the Firemen/Firefighters of England and the rest of the world during WW II. In the Blitz of London during WW II EVERY Member of the London Fire Brigade was killed, except for a small, number that entered the London Fire Brigade right at the end of the Blitz. I spoke with one who survived just after 9/11 at my old firehouse. We firefighters stand on the shoulders of true heroes, including the FDNY members that fought this fire in the Bronx.
Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired.
Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired.
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Back in the day, when the city was burning down, O'Hagan was closing companies and ordering chiefs not to transmit greater alarms. Everyone knew the city was burning down, but statistically O'Hagan could demonstrate that greater alarms were down.
Only a few years ago, FDNY had formal assignments that went beyond fifth alarm status, now, when a fire goes to a fifth alarm if additional units are needed, they are "special called".
This fire will be reported as a fourth alarm when it was actually equivalent to a sixth or seventh. So we know the statistics are being manipulated, but the general public and some elected representatives are unaware of the "subtle nuances" of the reporting system. Seems like a good way (LOL) for an administration to "prove" fires, or at least greater alarms, are down.
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From what i heard there was some units that took in a box near by and was assigned by BX, also had 2 engines S/C @ 03:12. & 1&1 for the watch line (assuming it was added into the rundown)
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This also shows the importance of responding to every call prepared - an “odor of gas” phone alarm turned into this. How many times a tour do some of these companies turn out for an odor of gas…it’s multiple and can become standard even…I echo the sentiments of nice rundowns and videos done by all who contributed. Prayers to those injured/killed and to those who operated. Very surprising that there was only one 10-45(1).
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I feel like this is contradictory on the departments side. If the department can show "Hey we had 8 5th Alarms, 4 6th Alarms, and 2 7th Alarms" That sounds alot better (atleast to argue for manpower and maybe even opening new companies) then saying "Yeah we only had 14 5th Alarms this year"
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You are completly right, but reporting it correctly could atleast make it seem like the additional resources are needed, as opposed to under-reporting and making it more justifiable to reduce resources. A 5th alarm fire sounds smaller then a 8th alarm fire, even if the amount of companies that responded/operated at said fire actually makes it a 8th alarm
I see what all of you are saying, I guess I just have a different view. If the department stops at a fifth, and the fifth is deemed the highest severity of fire, I don't think there is any loss when communicating to the public. In fact, I think it might be more impactful to say "In X year, FDNY responded to 34 five alarm fires, the most severe category" vs. "In Y year, FDNY responded to one 12th alarm, four 9th alarms, six 7th alarms, etc" which could lead someone to be totally confused.
To be clear if the department comes out and says fires are down, or call volume is down, I do think that's a bad message that could result in resources being taken away. I just don't think the average member of the public has any clue the difference between a 5th and an 8th and this is more of a niche buff issue that has no resonance with the public.
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I think it's a control issue. In the public's eyes (and in the administration's as well) a fifth alarm is more manageable (i.e. under control) than a seventh, ninth or a tenth alarm. We have everything under control, see nothing went past a fifth alarm.
It's also like fire related deaths. At one time (I don't know about now), if a person died within 24 hours of the fire, that person was a fire related death. If the person passed after the first 24 hours, they died of something else. Kept the fire related death statistic lower.
And as far as manpower and opening new companies, who advocates for those issues? The unions and maybe a community board. The administration will defer the issue on the grounds that either manpower and number of companies is adequate or there's no funds available. Look at the fifth man on an engine company or the population increases in Williamsburg and/or Long Island City. Those are legitimate and valid issues. Is any elected administration honestly addressing them?
Unfortunately, in New York City and many other municipalities, it takes a tragedy to make the general public truly aware of what's going on.