A LOOK BACK.

68jk09 said:
HISTORICAL NYC SUBWAY PHOTOS....SOME SHOWING THE SUBWAY TRACK COLLAPSE CAUSED BY WATER FROM THE 1956 WANAMAKER FIRE.........http://news.yahoo.com/photos/historical-images-of-new-york-city-subway-1421962140-slideshow/;_ylt=AwrBT7747MNUQQkAHbxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZDhlNThoBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDU2OV8x
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Thanks Chief - Nice pictures of NYC subway history.  I remember the vending machines.  The soda machines used paper cups.  When you put a nickel or dime in, a cup dropped down - or sometimes didn't drop down - and then the machine started to fill.  If there was no cup, you were screwed.  Maybe you got some soda with your hand.  It always seemed to happen when you were real thirsty and it was your last dime.  It didn't matter if the soda was warm, or too much syrup or not enough syrup, as long as you had a cup of something, it was OK.  I think those small candy and gum vending machines on the columns were pennies.  Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't.            And people complained that tokens cost 15 cents.
 
RARE PHOTO OF SQ*3 AT A THIRD ON GOLD ST AROUND '74......The Bronze 3 on the side of the Rig was one of the three's that were part of the LAD*133 lettering that was over the door of the unused bay in ENG*206's original FH on Metropolitan Av .......when the FH was opened in the 1900's this was a plan but 133 was never organized until 1998 in QNS......       

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1544454_1529375137343725_2082313678390500101_n.jpg?oh=8bd5db7b233d1cbdd3f860c1cb017613&oe=5527E872
 
68jk...chief that's a great bit of info on that bronze"3" on the Squad.

Those bronze digits were period pieces of those houses built between 1911 and the 1930s. They remained over the doors untouched for decades even if the companies, like L133, had never been organized there.

In those first 60 years of the last century the FDNY was a rigid semi military organization. The firehouses remained as built. Companies with separate house watch desks remained so. Rigs were not to be adorned with anything but what came on them from the Shops. And then the War Years came.....

Another story on the bronze digits. L36 was organized with the second coming of E43 (the first version was a "floating engine" or fireboat) on Sedgwick Ave in the Bronx in 1904. It was disbanded a decade later, resurfacing across the Harlem River with E95 two years later. But the "36 Hook&Ladder 36" remained over the south bay on the Sedgwick Ave firehouse into the 1970s.

Then one day L59 moved over from Boston Rd to take up residence with E43. Instead of removing the "36s" over the doors, the members turned the 3 around and bent it into a 5, then turned the 6 up side down into a 9. Voila!  "59 Hook&Ladder 59" now appeared over the door.

It may be gone now,  but "you could look it up"...and I saw it.
 
A lot of history in the Company numbers on the front of Firehouse's.....varying styles & sizes of the bronze ones,the earlier tin ones ,the earlier gold leaf painted ones on black wood & the later aluminum ones & also the placement of them......108's original handmade tin  sign which stretched over the door on Siegel St. is mounted on the wall inside  the present FH on Union Ave & was a backdrop in an interview on a "Cooking With Daisy" show (who is the Daughter of  RET FDNY CPT Ray Martinez)....when we moved to Union Av in '71 the Job had the Truck on the right side of the apparatus floor & 216 in the middle between the Truck & the BN....it was better to work on the Truck equipment in the middle bay so the CPT's agreed to switch sides so we got 2 pieces of metal from old Ladder Pipe hose rack's & placed the letters over the correct sides......  ..R*2 on Carlton Ave w/210 did not have lettering until the late '70s when we got tin lettering from a vacant Bodega & installed them on a piece of metal from a Ladder Pipe hose rack from an old Tiller Rig....we took the same sign w/us when we moved to Bergen St in '85 ......both the 108/216 signs & the R*2 signs remain today but both have a different color scheme from when we did them back then..... in a recent post in  the FH thread i had made a post about the lettering over 229/146 which are both unique (146 using the old Water Tower letters to make the only bronze Tower Ladder letter.'s & 229 having large sandcast  chrome lettering).....before LAD*133 was organized w/275 in '98 ENG*275's aluminum letters had been on a short wall next to the FH...in '94 we removed the wall & put those letter's on a piece of aluminum diamond plate over the apparatus door...when 133 was organized the Job installed lettering for both Unit's.   
 
  43/59's  lettering are over the wrong bays- 43 on the truck side, 59 on the engine side.  The truck can't make a right out of the left side bay. 
Also, speaking of bronze- L 59 has had giant bronze numbers on the front of the rig for a long time.
 
3511 said:
68jk

Those bronze digits were period pieces of those houses built between 1911 and the 1930s. They remained over the doors untouched for decades even if the companies, like L133, had never been organized there.

In those first 60 years of the last century the FDNY was a rigid semi military organization. The firehouses remained as built. Companies with separate house watch desks remained so. Rigs were not to be adorned with anything but what came on them from the Shops. And then the War Years came.....

It may be gone now,  but "you could look it up"...and I saw it.
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The fact that the bronze digits on the houses built in the early 1900's were not disturbed for decades means that they were seen and photographed by many.  Surprisingly, a fair number of firehouses were numbered for units that were never there but were established elsewhere, if at all.  This is particularly evident in the firehouses circa 1913-1919.  It would appear that they were built with some sort of master plan that somehow was changed before those companies could be organized.

Here is a partial list.  Does anyone know of any others?

Engine 160 / Ladder 81
Engine 206 / Ladder 133
Engine 288 / Ladder 138
Engine 296 / Ladder 145 - Mack, do you have this photo, which apparently became Engine 290's house?
Engine 310 / Ladder 160
Water Tower 7 / Ladder 146

Was any house ever numbered for Ladder 139 (guessing maybe Engine 289?) or Ladder 141 (guessing maybe Engine 292?) both as discussed in an earlier post.

There were others after the "War Years'

Engine 45 / Ladder 60
Engine 72 / Ladder 57
Engine 251 / Ladder 160 in Queens

Some that changed with companies being disbanded

Engine 6  / Engine 32
Engine 17 / Ladder 18/ Squad 5 / BC 4
Engine 43 / Ladder 36
Engine 45 / Ladder 55 / BC 26
Engine 56 / Engine 74
Engine 215 / Engine 238 / Ladder 106 / BC 36

And a few 'might have beens' that did not happen

Engine 11 / Ladder 11
Engine 20 / Ladder 20
Engine 27 / Ladder 8
Engine 36 / Ladder 14
Engine 72 / Ladder 3


 
Some other new FDNY house's that were on the proposed drawing board back in the early '60s but never happened were 218 & 237 together  South of 237's original qtrs.........225 & 236 together on Liberty Ave West of 236's original qtrs.........231 & 232 & 120 & BN*44 on the North Side of Atlantic Ave by the East New York LIRR Station.....out of all of these only 225 & 232 actually moved but to different locations.
 
A folly, or as Webster defines the word," a weakness of mind", is various studies municipalities do for future cost savings. Very early 1960's NYC hired the Rand Corp. to study "which fire companies could be disbanded, do to inactivity for future savings. One of the companies on the list that I remember was 45 engine, 3rd due at Charlotte Street.
 
The drawing for the current 233/176 quarters also included the then Engine 252 and the 17th Division. That drawing was at the rock for years after the school was opened there.
 
The 1912 architect's drawing proposal (posted by Mack) for Engine 229 on Richardson St has Engine 23 over the door.  Engine 23 was a fireboat.  That was probably just a 'concept' company number.

Were there any other station proposals that never got beyond the drawing boards?

I am fairly convinced, based on other activities in that time frame, that Engine 283-2, which was in service from 1931 to 1946, was originally going to become Engine 322 in the Brownsville - East New York area.
 
Firehouse at 1781 Monroe Ave. built in 1915 was originally lettered for Engine 42 and Ladder 50 and the "LADDER 50" was still on it when I was in junior high school in the early 1960's. I remember the current E71/L55/D6 firehouse was originally proposed for E41/E71/L55/Bn26 and when it was completed only had E41/L55 before E71/L55 moved in and the "Powers to Be" proposed the closing of Engine 41. From 1925 to 1950 many single engines were combined with single ladders firehouses. E238/L106 firehouse was built for E215/E238/L106/Bn36. E72/Sat.2 firehouse was supposed to have Ladder 57 and they even had a rig lettered for it but the company was never organized. 
 
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