All Hands vs All Hands Under Control
- Thread starter jlab
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- May 11, 2021
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I'm new here and I'm not FDNY, but I'll take a stab at it! (Nothing ventured, nothing gained).
Reported structure fires, for the most part, get 3 engines, 2 ladders, and a battalion chief. Upon arrival if fire is blowing out the windows, a 10-75 will be transmitted and then a 4th engine, rescue, squad, another battalion chief, a ladder assigned as FAST, the division chief and a RAC will be sent. If all units (or at least 5 units) are committed and are in use, the All-Hands is transmitted. This used to bring additional resources to the scene, but no longer does. However, this is useful information for the dispatchers, as now they may make a more comprehensive coverage assignment plan, and for any units due on the 2nd Alarm, as their ears may perk up.
The true definition of All-Hands is, at minimum, 5 major pieces are used. Getting back to the All-Hands, Under Control, this would most likely mean that the 3 engines, 2 ladders and the battalion chief assigned to the reported structure fire arrived, had a manageable fire and were able to control it with the 3 engines and 2 ladders (5 pieces). If not offered by the battalion, the dispatcher will usually quire if EMS is needed.
A fire that was extinguished using 2 engines, 2 ladders and the 3rd engine standing by would not be an All-Hands/Under Control because 5 major units were not put to work.
Reported structure fires, for the most part, get 3 engines, 2 ladders, and a battalion chief. Upon arrival if fire is blowing out the windows, a 10-75 will be transmitted and then a 4th engine, rescue, squad, another battalion chief, a ladder assigned as FAST, the division chief and a RAC will be sent. If all units (or at least 5 units) are committed and are in use, the All-Hands is transmitted. This used to bring additional resources to the scene, but no longer does. However, this is useful information for the dispatchers, as now they may make a more comprehensive coverage assignment plan, and for any units due on the 2nd Alarm, as their ears may perk up.
The true definition of All-Hands is, at minimum, 5 major pieces are used. Getting back to the All-Hands, Under Control, this would most likely mean that the 3 engines, 2 ladders and the battalion chief assigned to the reported structure fire arrived, had a manageable fire and were able to control it with the 3 engines and 2 ladders (5 pieces). If not offered by the battalion, the dispatcher will usually quire if EMS is needed.
A fire that was extinguished using 2 engines, 2 ladders and the 3rd engine standing by would not be an All-Hands/Under Control because 5 major units were not put to work.
A 10-75 is a request for additional resources.
Just because they transmit a 10-75 does not mean they’ll use all hands
All hands is 3 engines(or 2 engines and a squad operating as an engine) and 2 trucks operating.
All hands Doubtful gets the balance of the Assignment.
Just because they transmit a 10-75 does not mean they’ll use all hands
All hands is 3 engines(or 2 engines and a squad operating as an engine) and 2 trucks operating.
All hands Doubtful gets the balance of the Assignment.
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- May 11, 2021
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Just so I have this straight, I believe they can skip a 10-75 for whatever reason and once they say "all-hands" they get the balance of the assignment. It doesn't necessarily have to be doubtful to fill out the assignment. Is that correct?
All-Hands doesn't just pertain to 10-75s, it can also be used on other signals. So I believe a individual signal must be given, not just the All-Hands.
For fire purposes, if it is determined that a fire can be controlled with just 3 Engines/2 Ladders - a BC, without transmitting a 10-75 signal, may transmit an All Hands/Under Control - and unless otherwise requested no additional units will be assigned.
Would that be the case for like a 10-22 or 10-27
FYI - Brooklyn Box 3991 at 9:18 PM a Perfect Example:
https://nycfire.net/forums/threads/5-23-21-brooklyn-10-75-box-3991.66106/#post-216001
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I have had many jobs where i responded with 3 & 2 & on arrival not much showing so no 10-75....as operations proceeded i may have used the remaining Units (if needed) but had no need to give a 10-75 as i felt comfortable with the 3 & 2 but rather i gave an All Hands Under Control if they were all used giving them credit for their work.....relocations as needed were made by the Dispatcher for the Units used but no Special Units were dispatched to the scene.
Chief, what would your final signal be on an incident like that?
If you go with 2 and 2 or 3 and 2 and these units are OK to control, contain and extinguish or remediate the situation then the BC can give All Hands no special units. If he goes with All Hands and saying nothing else then the dispatcher will have to fill out the box with the Fast truck Rescue Squad All Hands Chief and Deputy.
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All Hands under control basically means you dont need more than your current assignment, and the fire or emergency isnt something that is determined to be spread or evolving above its current state.
Things like a burning joist in the walls with no active flame, or a compactor fire in a high rise are examples.
Things like a burning joist in the walls with no active flame, or a compactor fire in a high rise are examples.