EMT Sergeant

[Lebby]

The department has been in talks with the union to bring back EMT Lieutenants for administrative duties (currently all, but a few grandfathered Lieutenants are paramedics). Apparently as they will be paid different to reflect their different level of certification there is a desire for them to have a different title as to avoid any confusion with their paramedic trained counterparts. Last night it was said at the union meeting they'll tentatively be called Sergeants.

I wonder if they'll wear sergeant stripes...

 

[memorymaster]

Lebby, they talked about sergeants back in 1984/85 way before you had to be a medic to get promoted. The merry-go-round keeps spinning.

 

[Capttomo]

There are a few remaining fire departments that still have sargeants as a company officer rank. If I remember correctly one of the Maryland counties still utilize that rank.

 

[entropychaser]

There are a few remaining fire departments that still have sargeants as a company officer rank. If I remember correctly one of the Maryland counties still utilize that rank.

Also in Virginia and DCFD? Didn't the old fire patrols have that rank too?

 

[Lebby]

Detroit also has Sergeants, in PG a few volunteer companies had Corporals. In the same vein DCFD's entry rank is Private not Firefighter.

 

[lfdlt31]

I believe most of the FD's that use the rank of Sgt use them as Firefighters eligible to act in the place of the company Lieutenant

 

[68jk09]

Also in Virginia and DCFD? Didn't the old fire patrols have that rank too?

Yes NY Fire Patrol had a SGT rank.

 

[Elmerj]

Many questions with this one ...Seems like this would be departing from what is an industry standard in this country. Why would you want to reduce the level of education for supervision ? If I remember correctly the job required the medic cert to promote starting in 2009 specifically to have a better educated more capable supervisor/officer. It's been working for over a decade, why undo something that works ? What is the pay difference going to be and would it be more worthwhile to just go to the free (but you really need to study and apply yourself) FDNY medic training, get the cert, do some ALS street time and promote to Lieutenant. Seems like the only difference being floated here is the certification level. Would a Sgt. subsequently earning the medic cert allow them to become a lieutenant without another civil service exam ? How many seats would be set aside in Medic School for Sgts. who want to upgrade ? Who would Sgts. supervise ? The EMT's only ? Would they be permitted to supervise the Medics ? I think changing the supervision requirement to only a BLS cert would create too many opportunities for situations that were common in the past.

On the surface it seems like a reasonable opportunity for the EMT's to advance in rank. IMO the better (different) idea is to educationally prep those who want to advance so they are successful in Medic school. Could also do incremental certification from EMT to AEMT3 then to AEMT4 Paramedic for those who can't commit to the year in school up front. Is the forgivable loan program still around so EMT's can go to medic school on the outside and only be required to do the Medic Upgrade Program ? My thought would be to learn the whole job (both certification levels) be proficient, then take the Lieutenants exam enabling one to supervise everyone in the system on the street or otherwise without question.
More education not less.

 

[MagicMan17]

The idea of allowing FDNY EMTs the opportunity to have more training and responsibilities as an A-EMT is something that I would support. I feel many FDNY EMTs feel a lack of pride in themselves because of how basic the job may feel most of the time. The skill set and knowledge difference of an EMT to a Paramedic is huge, as 9 months of additional (difficult) training is required to become a FDNY paramedic. This leaves many EMTs, especially those who aren’t committing a career to EMS (a lot of young people looking to promote to fire) intimidated by the commitment required to become a medic. However, an A-EMT status would allow young motivated EMTs the opportunity to practice more advanced medical skills without as much commitment and responsibility. As for the actual practical implementation of this program, that would be a whole other conversation.

 

[Lebby]

It seems to be geared more so to administrative positions, especially EMTs like senior instructors or members involved in logistics who are supervising other EMTs.

 

[dan]

This is strictly an administrative non operations and non patient care spot for the EMT's who want to be promoted......Same civil service test but different job duties as a Paramedic boss....pretty much a done deal.....When former NYPD brass are running the show you get PD rank and structure.....

 

[Elmerj]

Im trying to understand how you can give the same civil service test for two separate civil service titles with different job responsibilities. Are you suggesting the titles would be broad banded similar to what is done now with SEMSS 1 (Lieutenant) and SEMSS 2 (Captain) adding the Seargent position? As far as a done deal, when you get a city agency in this case the FDNY, Unions, OMB, OLR, DCAS & City Hall involved suddenly things that appear to be a done deal can sometimes take unanticipated twist and turns. Either way best of luck to all those who will benefit from the proposed new title.

 

[SKuhrEM]

The department has been in talks with the union to bring back EMT Lieutenants for administrative duties (currently all, but a few grandfathered Lieutenants are paramedics). Apparently as they will be paid different to reflect their different level of certification there is a desire for them to have a different title as to avoid any confusion with their paramedic trained counterparts. Last night it was said at the union meeting they'll tentatively be called Sergeants.

I wonder if they'll wear sergeant stripes...

EMS had a sergeant program which was tested in Manhattan in the late 80's, early 90's. A few worked in the borough command but I do not recall them on field or station duty. The program never grew legs.

 

[Darrell]

Also in Virginia and DCFD? Didn't the old fire patrols have that rank too?

In DC, no. Virginia, idk.

 

[Lebby]

In DC, no. Virginia, idk.

DCFD has Sergeants

 

[fltpara16]

The small Department in Virginia I started with had Sergeants. When I was hired, the Department only had 22 personnel and the Officers included a Chief, two Lts. And a Fire Inspector. As the Department grew, there was a need for more officers to maintain the span of control. The City Manager at the time would only approve more fire officers if the ranks were the same as the Police Department. The Fire Department ended up with Corporals, Sergeants, Lieutenants and Captains. Eventually, after I went to another agency, the ranks were redesignated as LT., Capt., and Battalion Chief. My old Sgts. helmet is pictured below in retirement.

 

[Darrell]

Question, anyone remember when the FDNY came out and said EMS was getting a Sergeants rank? Did DCAS even give the written exams for it or did the new rank spark fizzle out?

 

[Lebby]

Question, anyone remember when the FDNY came out and said EMS was getting a Sergeants rank? Did DCAS even give the written exams for it or did the new rank spark fizzle out?

The test was a few weeks ago

 

[memorymaster]

I would love to see a copy of that exam.

 

[Lebby]

I would love to see a copy of that exam.

It was the LT exam