FDNY and NYC Firehouses and Fire Companies
- Thread starter mack
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Engine 72 - Manhattan Firehouse 22 E 12th Street Lower Manhattan 2nd Division, 6th Battalion DISBANDED
Engine 72 organized 22 E 12th Street 1900
Engine 72 disbanded 1957
Engine 72-2 organized 22 E 12th Street at Engine 72 1908
Engine 72-2 disbanded 1916
Engine 72-2 reorganized 22 E 12th Street at Engine 72 1917
Engine 72-2 disbanded 1918
Division 2 located 22 E 12th Street at Engine 72 1930-1948 and 1951-1956
Note - Engine 72 (Manhattan) was disbanded in 1957 to form Engine 41-2 in the Bronx. Engine 72 (Bronx) was organized at 3929 E. Tremont Avenue in 1972 as a new engine company.
Engine 72 High Pressure History:
Engine 72 became a high pressure engine company in 1908 and was assigned a high pressure hose wagon - also FDNY's first motorized apparatus. Engine 72 did not have a steamer and responded with only its hose wagon within the high pressure pumping system in Lower Manhattan which had become operational in 1908. The system had special hydrants which could supply multiple hand lines without a steamer (or pumper). The concept anticipated expansion with additional high pressure pumping systems and the elimination of steamers (or pumpers). The high pressure engine concept was placed in service in several Manhattan companies (Engines 72-2, 20, 20-2, 27, 27-2, 30-2 and 30-3) but discontinued due to inflexibility. There were two additional high pressure pumping systems built in Downtown Brooklyn and Coney Island which were operational up to the 1970s.
http://daytoninmanhattan.blogspot.com/2012/02/1912-high-pressure-service-headquaters.html
Engine 72 High Pressure Hose Wagon:
Engine 72:
Engine 72 Medals:
FF Robert A. Tierney February 1, 1920 Brookman Medal
Probationary FF Matthew J. Crawley February 1, 1920 Scott Medal
FF Charles M. Amato February 1, 1920 Trevor-Warren Medal
FF Walter P. Bresnan October 14, 1949 Johnson Medal
Engine 72 LODDs:
FF George A. O'Connor January 10, 1908
FF Thomas F. Phillips January 10, 1908
RIP. Never forget.
History - "Engine 72 Goes to the Bronx" - WNYF April 1957
Engine 72 Fires:
February 22, 1902 - 71st Armory/Park Avenue Hotel Fire:
Engine 72 operated in heavy snowstorm assigned 3rd due on 3rd Alarm. Engine 72 members credited with rescues using a scaling ladder.
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1902/02/22/page/1/article/gotham-hotel-burns-at-least-14-are-killed
http://daytoninmanhattan.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-lost-71st-regiment-armory-park.html
January 10, 1908 - Parker Building Fire - 4th Avenue and 19th Street:
Two Engine 72 firefighters killed - FF Thomas F. Phillips and FF George A. O'Connor
One NY Fire Patrol member killed - John Fallon, Fire Patrol 3
January 17, 1908 Thirteen-Story Parker Building In New York Destroyed
"The Fiercest Fire in Years - Three Firemen Dead and Many Others Injured - Many Daring Escapes From Tenth Story.
New York City. -- Flames consumed to its skeleton or iron and brick the supposedly fireproof structure known as the Parker Building, which occupies the northwest segment of the block bound by Fourth avenue, Eighteenth and Nineteenth streets and Irving place.
The flames licked to the bare bones of the thirteen-story structure. The steel girders, with their facing of white stone on the Fourth avenue side and brick on the other sides, threatened to collapse, and because of this peril the police cleared buildings which nestled beneath the burning structure of hundreds of tenants.
The subway runs under Fourth avenue, and because of the menace of falling walls peremptory orders were sent to the officials of the Inter-Met. Railway to stop traffic in the subway immediately. In case of the collapse of the building. Fire Department officials said, it was practically certain that thousands of tons of masonry would crash into the subway. The order to stop traffic was obeyed.
Three lives were lost and scores of firemen were injured.
The dead are: JOHN FALLON, Fire Patrol 3; GEORGE O'CONNOR, Engine 72; THOMAS PHILLIPS, Engine 72.
Seldom have New York firemen had to fight a more stubborn blaze. There were many thrilling rescues, and from time to time rumors went around that some of those fighting the flames had been killed by falling debris. Many of those working in the building when the fire started were saved with difficulty.
The amount of damage done was estimated by Fire Commissioner LANTRY and Assistant Fire Chief BINNS at more than $6,000,000. They said that the disaster proved the inability of the New York Fire Department to cope successfully with flames in the city's skyscrapers at a greater height than the eighth story.
Two score of firemen had miraculous escapes from death when the floors on the fifth story fell, carrying debris downward to the cellar and upon the heads of the men fighting the flames on the second story and in the basement.
The flames spread throughout the building with amazing rapidity, attracting 50,000 spectators. Fire lines were established early, and it is estimated that 20,000 persons were massed in Union Square alone."
- The Cranbury Press New Jersey 1908-01-17
March 25, 1911 - Triangle Shirtwaist Company Fire
Engine 72 assigned first due on initial alarm transmitted 1645 hrs in the Asch Building, 23-29 Washington Place. Engine 72 had a 6 block run and workers were already jumping out of upper floors on arrival. 143 workers were killed in the blaze.
https://www.osha.gov/oas/trianglefactoryfire.html
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/uncovering-the-history-of-the-triangle-shirtwaist-fire-124701842/
Engine 72 Former Firehouse 22 E 12th Street - Today:
Engine 72 organized 22 E 12th Street 1900
Engine 72 disbanded 1957
Engine 72-2 organized 22 E 12th Street at Engine 72 1908
Engine 72-2 disbanded 1916
Engine 72-2 reorganized 22 E 12th Street at Engine 72 1917
Engine 72-2 disbanded 1918
Division 2 located 22 E 12th Street at Engine 72 1930-1948 and 1951-1956
Note - Engine 72 (Manhattan) was disbanded in 1957 to form Engine 41-2 in the Bronx. Engine 72 (Bronx) was organized at 3929 E. Tremont Avenue in 1972 as a new engine company.
Engine 72 High Pressure History:
Engine 72 became a high pressure engine company in 1908 and was assigned a high pressure hose wagon - also FDNY's first motorized apparatus. Engine 72 did not have a steamer and responded with only its hose wagon within the high pressure pumping system in Lower Manhattan which had become operational in 1908. The system had special hydrants which could supply multiple hand lines without a steamer (or pumper). The concept anticipated expansion with additional high pressure pumping systems and the elimination of steamers (or pumpers). The high pressure engine concept was placed in service in several Manhattan companies (Engines 72-2, 20, 20-2, 27, 27-2, 30-2 and 30-3) but discontinued due to inflexibility. There were two additional high pressure pumping systems built in Downtown Brooklyn and Coney Island which were operational up to the 1970s.
http://daytoninmanhattan.blogspot.com/2012/02/1912-high-pressure-service-headquaters.html
Engine 72 High Pressure Hose Wagon:
Engine 72:
Engine 72 Medals:
FF Robert A. Tierney February 1, 1920 Brookman Medal
Probationary FF Matthew J. Crawley February 1, 1920 Scott Medal
FF Charles M. Amato February 1, 1920 Trevor-Warren Medal
FF Walter P. Bresnan October 14, 1949 Johnson Medal
Engine 72 LODDs:
FF George A. O'Connor January 10, 1908
FF Thomas F. Phillips January 10, 1908
RIP. Never forget.
History - "Engine 72 Goes to the Bronx" - WNYF April 1957
Engine 72 Fires:
February 22, 1902 - 71st Armory/Park Avenue Hotel Fire:
Engine 72 operated in heavy snowstorm assigned 3rd due on 3rd Alarm. Engine 72 members credited with rescues using a scaling ladder.
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1902/02/22/page/1/article/gotham-hotel-burns-at-least-14-are-killed
http://daytoninmanhattan.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-lost-71st-regiment-armory-park.html
January 10, 1908 - Parker Building Fire - 4th Avenue and 19th Street:
Two Engine 72 firefighters killed - FF Thomas F. Phillips and FF George A. O'Connor
One NY Fire Patrol member killed - John Fallon, Fire Patrol 3
January 17, 1908 Thirteen-Story Parker Building In New York Destroyed
"The Fiercest Fire in Years - Three Firemen Dead and Many Others Injured - Many Daring Escapes From Tenth Story.
New York City. -- Flames consumed to its skeleton or iron and brick the supposedly fireproof structure known as the Parker Building, which occupies the northwest segment of the block bound by Fourth avenue, Eighteenth and Nineteenth streets and Irving place.
The flames licked to the bare bones of the thirteen-story structure. The steel girders, with their facing of white stone on the Fourth avenue side and brick on the other sides, threatened to collapse, and because of this peril the police cleared buildings which nestled beneath the burning structure of hundreds of tenants.
The subway runs under Fourth avenue, and because of the menace of falling walls peremptory orders were sent to the officials of the Inter-Met. Railway to stop traffic in the subway immediately. In case of the collapse of the building. Fire Department officials said, it was practically certain that thousands of tons of masonry would crash into the subway. The order to stop traffic was obeyed.
Three lives were lost and scores of firemen were injured.
The dead are: JOHN FALLON, Fire Patrol 3; GEORGE O'CONNOR, Engine 72; THOMAS PHILLIPS, Engine 72.
Seldom have New York firemen had to fight a more stubborn blaze. There were many thrilling rescues, and from time to time rumors went around that some of those fighting the flames had been killed by falling debris. Many of those working in the building when the fire started were saved with difficulty.
The amount of damage done was estimated by Fire Commissioner LANTRY and Assistant Fire Chief BINNS at more than $6,000,000. They said that the disaster proved the inability of the New York Fire Department to cope successfully with flames in the city's skyscrapers at a greater height than the eighth story.
Two score of firemen had miraculous escapes from death when the floors on the fifth story fell, carrying debris downward to the cellar and upon the heads of the men fighting the flames on the second story and in the basement.
The flames spread throughout the building with amazing rapidity, attracting 50,000 spectators. Fire lines were established early, and it is estimated that 20,000 persons were massed in Union Square alone."
- The Cranbury Press New Jersey 1908-01-17
March 25, 1911 - Triangle Shirtwaist Company Fire
Engine 72 assigned first due on initial alarm transmitted 1645 hrs in the Asch Building, 23-29 Washington Place. Engine 72 had a 6 block run and workers were already jumping out of upper floors on arrival. 143 workers were killed in the blaze.
https://www.osha.gov/oas/trianglefactoryfire.html
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/uncovering-the-history-of-the-triangle-shirtwaist-fire-124701842/
Engine 72 Former Firehouse 22 E 12th Street - Today:
mac8146 said:
Thanks mac8146. It is confusing to track some FDNY company histories and lineage.
Engine 72 (Man) is not officially related to Engine 72 (Bronx) as you point out. Engine 72 (Man) was organized in 1900 in Lower Manhattan, had a 2nd section for years, shared quarters with the disbanded 2nd Division - and then was disbanded to form Engine 41-2 in 1957.
Engine 41-1 was formed in 1957 from Engine 72 (Man) and then disbanded in 1958, reorganized in 1968 and disbanded in 1974 (during the financial crisis).
I do not know FDNY lineage "rules", but when the Department built a new firehouse for a new engine company on E Tremont Ave in the Bronx in 1972, it was numbered Engine 72 but not officially associated with the disbanded Engine 72 (Man). Engine 41-2 was reorganized and in service in 1972 when the new Engine 72 (Bronx) went in service. It is confusing to try and follow historical lineage. Engine 72 on E Tremont Street in the Bronx has its own independent history but does share its FDNY designation as "Engine 72" with its Lower Manhattan predecessor.
There are many FDNY units that share a similar number designation but have an independent lineage and history. There are also companies that have different FDNY unit numbers but are linked because they were reorganized from a disbanded FDNY company.
Many Brooklyn and Queens companies trace their lineage to previous Brooklyn Fire Department and Long Island City professional department companies that they were organized from even though FDNY unit numbers changed.
Division and Battalion Chief histories and connections are confusing. Divisions and Battalions were organized, relocated and disbanded. Division 7, for example, was organized in Brooklyn in 1898 and then re-designated Division 11. A Division 7 was reorganized in SI in 1906 and relocated to the Bronx in 1907. In 1995, Division 7 moved from the Bronx, to Brooklyn, to the Bronx, to Brooklyn and then back to Bronx in 1997.
Marine companies used to be numbered as engine companies. Engine 85 (Marine) was located at W 35th Street in Manhattan and is not related to Engine 85 which served in the South Bronx on Intervale Ave and the "Tin House". Engine 85 (Marine) was disbanded to form Marine 3. Engine 85 in the Bronx was formed in 1967 and then reorganized to form Ladder 53 in 1986.
There are also many engine, ladder and squad companies that share prior histories as combined companies, 2nd sections, Tactical Control Units, hose companies, chemical engines and suburban ladder companies.
Sorry but this is a long way of saying Engine 72 in the Bronx is different than Engine 72 which served in Manhattan.
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In Reply 1898 (the Sackman Street photos), the seventh photo down show a ladder pipe being set up on a 59/60 Mack Tiller. Would anyone have an idea which truck company that was?
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mack said:
Lineage is a fun way to trace company histories, even ascribing family relationships to their history, but in reality, there is no passing of DNA from one company to another. Each company is a uniquely organized entity. Some get disbanded, sometimes more than once.
Basically, one of five events can occur during the existence (life) of a company.
Relocation: A company is moved from one location to another. Same company number, same apparatus, same crew ? to a new location. Identity remains the same. For example: Engine 75 from 2283 Jerome Ave to 2175 Walton Ave.
Reorganization: A previously existing company is restored in the same neighborhood after being disbanded or a previously assigned number is reused for a new company. Present Engine 4 is a reorganized company because it remains in the same original neighborhood and reuses a previous company's number (from 37 years ago).
Redeployment: On the same day, one company is disbanded and a new company is organized in a different location. Original company number is disbanded, new unit number is organized. Original apparatus and crew reassigned or transferred, new unit and crew transferred in. No net change in total number of units within the department. In 1972, Engine 208 Brooklyn was disbanded and Engine 167 Staten Island was organized.
Redesignation: On the same day, one company is disbanded and a new company of a different type is organized. Apparatus changes and crew may be changed. No net change in total number of units within the department. In 1968, Engine 244 was disbanded and Ladder 55 was organized, on the same day.
Renumbering: Company remains in place, same station, same function, same apparatus, same crew, but has a different number. Most frequently happened to Battalions and Divisions, but all existing Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island companies were renumbered when merged with FDNY in 1899 and again in 1913. Brooklyn Engine 1 became FDNY Engine 101 and later became Engine 201. It remained at the same location during the numbering changes.
Renumbering causes the most historical confusion because it creates the appearance of company movements, when in fact the change was only on paper.
The was a great deal of discussion about company lineage on this thread in 2014, vicinity of page 41.
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Renumbering causes the most historical confusion because it creates the appearance of company movements, when in fact the change was only on paper. Here is a recent discussion of just that issue.mack said:
From the point of view of the 'Coney Island' Battalion, which has been in continuous existence since 1895, here is an alternative timeline.
Brooklyn District Engineer 13 organized at Brooklyn Engine 45 in 1895;
FDNY Brooklyn Battalion 13 was renumbered as FDNY Battalion 33 at FDNY Brooklyn Engine 45 in 1898, (which itself was renumbered as Engine 145 in 1899);
FDNY Battalion 33 was renumbered as Battalion 43 at Engine 145 in 1906, (which itself was renumbered as Engine 245 in 1913.)
From the point of view of the 'South Downtown Brooklyn' Battalion, which had been in continuous existence since 1869 until 1922, then re-established at Engine 276 in the Midwood area 8 years later, here is an alternative timeline.
Brooklyn District Engineer 2 organized at Brooklyn Engine 5 in 1869; then Brooklyn Engine 26 in 1896;
Brooklyn District Engineer 2 was renumbered as FDNY Brooklyn Battalion 3 at FDNY Brooklyn Engine 26 in 1898, (which itself was renumbered as Engine 126 in 1899);
FDNY Brooklyn Battalion 3 was renumbered as FDNY Battalion 23 at Engine 126 in 1898;
FDNY Battalion 23 was renumbered as Battalion 33 at Engine 126 in 1906, (which itself was renumbered as Engine 226 in 1913);
Battalion 33 was disbanded in 1922;
Battalion 33 was reorganized at Engine 276 in 1930.
In both cases, the battalions were at 245 and 226 before, during, and after numbering changes. When BC 33 moved to 276 in 1930, it had already been closed for 8 years from 226 in 1922.
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mack said:
Adding to Mack's excellent explanation -
Engine 72 (Manhattan) to Engine 41-2 was a redeployment. It was not a relocation because 72 was disbanded and it was not a renumbering unless the apparatus and crew were transferred intact (probably not) and not a redesignation because it was an engine company before and after.
Engine 72 reorganized from Engine 88-2 was also a redeployment. It was not a relocation because the company number changed. It was not a renumbering because the location changed and the apparatus and crew were probably not transferred intact, and not a redesignation because it was an engine company before and after. Bronx Engine 72 has nothing connecting it with the earlier Manhattan Engine 72 other than the number.
Engine 41-2 becoming Engine 66 was a redeployment.
The direct lineage for Manhattan Engine 72 goes to Engine 41-2 then Engine 66 by continuity.
The direct lineage for Bronx Engine 72 comes from Engine 88-2 which came from Engine 46-2 which began as a new unit. Same name, different family.
The was a great deal of discussion about company lineage on this thread in 2014, vicinity of page 41.
fdhistorian said:
Thanks fdhistorian. From 2014 (page 41):
Re: FDNY Firehouses
? Reply #609 on: March 05, 2014, 01:45:05 PM ?
Quote
The original Brooklyn divisions were 6,7,8 and 9. SI was 10. In January 1906, 10 renumbered as 6, placing a 6 on SI. In November 1906, Bronx Division 5 renumbered as 6, so 6 was in Da Bronx. In 1907, 6 went to 80?s house in Manhattan.
The 6 reappeared in Da Bronx in 1956 and has remained there except between 1995 and 1997 when it was renumbered 3, while the 11 was renumbered 6 in Brooklyn.
Try following that lineage a hundred years from now!
The original 10 was 6 and now is 8.
The original 5 is now 6.
The original 6 became 10 which then reorganized present 8. The 1995-1997 renumbering was technically inaccurate because 11 was originally 7, not 6.
Confused? Let?s try it this way.
Original Manhattan 1 ? became 2, then new 1 reorganized same day, further south
Original Manhattan 2 ? became 3
Original Manhattan 3 ? closed in Harlem and 1 reorganized same day, different area
Original Bronx 4 ? became 5 *
Original Bronx 5 ? became 6 *
Original Brooklyn 6 ? became 10
Original Brooklyn 7 ? became 11 *
Original Brooklyn 8 ? became 12 *
Original Brooklyn 9 ? became 13 *
Original Staten Island 10 ? became 6 but eventually 8
*Briefly renumbered and renumbered back in 1995-1997
The original Manhattan Division 1,2,3 renumbering is very confusing to follow because only one division actually moved and it renumbered in the process (original DC3 actually became new DC1 by closing and reorganizing on the same day, just like 208 to 167, while 1 and 2 renumbered without moving).
This happened in 1906. Division 14 ? 17 formed years later. It appears that the Marine Division was not numbered.
It is interesting that the number of divisions is almost the same as 100 years ago.
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My guess is that it was a relocator like L132 that used to spend time at L120. Interchange had not yet begun but there was a "nightime" Ladder 193 which was L10, that had a 1960 Mack/Maxim 85ft.1261Truckie said:
The fire was in 1967 so L103 no longer had a 1960 Mack/Maxim. At that time, Ladders 103, 107, 120 and 123 were all running with 1962/63 Seagraves.
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Gman,
Thanks, 132 was my first guess (naturally). We spent a lot of time at 120. I was just wondering if anyone knew for sure. My guess was 255 was also relocated into the area that night
Jim (aka 1261)
Thanks, 132 was my first guess (naturally). We spent a lot of time at 120. I was just wondering if anyone knew for sure. My guess was 255 was also relocated into the area that night
Jim (aka 1261)
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In addition to LAD*10 you also got LAD*15 as 193 during a certain period..... in 1967 108 had a '63 Seagrave Tiller also.guitarman314 said:My guess is that it was a relocator like L132 that used to spend time at L120. Interchange had not yet begun but there was a "nightime" Ladder 193 which was L10, that had a 1960 Mack/Maxim 85ft.1261Truckie said:
guitarman314 said:My guess is that it was a relocator like L132 that used to spend time at L120. Interchange had not yet begun but there was a "nightime" Ladder 193 which was L10, that had a 1960 Mack/Maxim 85ft.1261Truckie said:
Gman - One ladder company looks like Ladder 157 by officer's helmet at rear of Engine 255 helmet:
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L112 was next closest with a 1959/60 Mack. L157 was running with a 1956 ALF 85ft. (x-L107).mack said:guitarman314 said:My guess is that it was a relocator like L132 that used to spend time at L120. Interchange had not yet begun but there was a "nightime" Ladder 193 which was L10, that had a 1960 Mack/Maxim 85ft.1261Truckie said:
Gman - One ladder company looks like Ladder 157 by officer's helmet at rear of Engine 255 helmet:
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111 also had a '62 Seagrave
Engine 72 Firehouse 3929 E Tremont Avenue Throggs Neck, Bronx 7th Division, 20th Battalion "Never a Dull Moment"
Engine 72 organized 3929 E Tremont Avenue 1972
Satellite 2 organized 618 E 138th Street at Engine 83 1965
Satellite 2 moved 3929 E Tremont Avenue at Engine 72 1975
Division 7 located 3929 E Tremont Avenue at Engine 72 1991
Special Operations SSL-1 located at 3929 E Tremont Avenue at Engine 72 2116
3929 E Tremont Avenue Firehouse:
Engine 72:
Satellite 2:
Special Operations SSL-1:
Engine 72/Satellite 2/Battalion 20:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qKCVPDfj-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WeYAH5YJIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DTSpe-UeE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OJnvWSLhA
Engine 72 Medal:
FF Warren J. Sisko April 26, 1983 Awarded Stiefel Medal
Throggs Neck Neighborhood:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throggs_Neck
http://forgotten-ny.com/2015/06/fort-schuyler-throggs-neck/
https://dmna.ny.gov/forts/fortsQ_S/schuylerFort.htm
Note - Ft Schuyler was staffed by the US Army through World War II and had a military fire department. It was also home to military and federal firefighting schools.
World Trade Center Memorial September 11, 2001:
Never forget.
Engine 72 organized 3929 E Tremont Avenue 1972
Satellite 2 organized 618 E 138th Street at Engine 83 1965
Satellite 2 moved 3929 E Tremont Avenue at Engine 72 1975
Division 7 located 3929 E Tremont Avenue at Engine 72 1991
Special Operations SSL-1 located at 3929 E Tremont Avenue at Engine 72 2116
3929 E Tremont Avenue Firehouse:
Engine 72:
Satellite 2:
Special Operations SSL-1:
Engine 72/Satellite 2/Battalion 20:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qKCVPDfj-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WeYAH5YJIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DTSpe-UeE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OJnvWSLhA
Engine 72 Medal:
FF Warren J. Sisko April 26, 1983 Awarded Stiefel Medal
Throggs Neck Neighborhood:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throggs_Neck
http://forgotten-ny.com/2015/06/fort-schuyler-throggs-neck/
https://dmna.ny.gov/forts/fortsQ_S/schuylerFort.htm
Note - Ft Schuyler was staffed by the US Army through World War II and had a military fire department. It was also home to military and federal firefighting schools.
World Trade Center Memorial September 11, 2001:
Never forget.
FDNY originally planned to place a ladder company with Engine 72 in 1972. The new firehouse was marked with Ladder 57 and the apparatus was initially placed in quarters. The company was never organized. Ladder 50 is still 1st due ladder company with Engine 72.
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