4/6/21 Queens 8th Alarm Box 7864

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rescue_canada

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Oct 25, 2018
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On top of Chicago, Houston, LAcoFD and LAFD, Toronto up north has a minimum of 500 firefighters and max of 694 on shift. Although they're short between 200 and 600 depending on which report you go by.... However, they only have 29 Trucks, which run with 3 or 4. Brought me to the point that in North America, only Houston (38), Chicago (61) and Montreal (52) have enough Truck Co's to match FDNY's 38 on scene at this 8th. But Houston only runs with 4 and Montreal with 3 on a truck..
 
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nfd2004

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Just a thought here.

Something else that might be considered when discussing the manning of the FDNY, in comparison to other city's is perhaps "Population Density".

New York City has the HIGHEST Population Density per square mile compared to any other major U.S. City.
That population density being 27,000 people per square mile.
People piled on top of one another or packed closely in buildings to one another.

With Life Safety as the Primary Concern of any fire dept, that would seem to me why more firefighters might be required.
 
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skiLB

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nfd2004 said:
Just a thought here.

Something else that might be considered when discussing the manning of the FDNY, in comparison to other city's is perhaps "Population Density".

New York City has the HIGHEST Population Density per square mile compared to any other major U.S. City.
That population density being 27,000 people per square mile.
People piled on top of one another or packed closely in buildings to one another.

With Life Safety as the Primary Concern of any fire dept, that would seem to me why more firefighters might be required.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
R

rescue_canada

Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
6
nfd2004 said:
Just a thought here.

Something else that might be considered when discussing the manning of the FDNY, in comparison to other city's is perhaps "Population Density".

New York City has the HIGHEST Population Density per square mile compared to any other major U.S. City.
That population density being 27,000 people per square mile.
People piled on top of one another or packed closely in buildings to one another.

With Life Safety as the Primary Concern of any fire dept, that would seem to me why more firefighters might be required.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. It seems there is an almost direct correlation between the ratio of trucks to engines and a city's population density in North America. The more density, the more Truck Companies.
 
Bulldog

Bulldog

Bulldog
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rescue_canada said:
Excellent point. It seems there is an almost direct correlation between the ratio of trucks to engines and a city's population density in North America. The more density, the more Truck Companies.
Click to expand...
Along the same line higher population density normally means more high-rise buildings which also increases the need for truck companies.
 
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fdhistorian

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Bulldog said:
Along the same line higher population density normally means more high-rise buildings which also increases the need for truck companies.
Click to expand...
When two #1 statistics are true, then is the correlation between them true?
NYC has the highest population densities - true.
NYC has the most truck companies - true.
Is there a direct correlation? - not necessarily.

If density increases, are truck companies always added? What about high density single story buildings like places of assembly? How about Hudson Yards?
If truck companies are increased, will population density increase? - not likely.

The correlation is building height.
Higher buildings increase density as floor area increases but the foundation footprint remains constant - more density.
More truck companies are required as more buildings above 30 feet are added - old insurance rating requirement, not always applied today.

On the other hand - staffing. Not much to say when staffing levels are #1 in the US.
However, staffing levels of 6 or 7 per company were the norm in the early to mid 1900's when the population was lower than presently. Technology was different though.

Comparisons are always an interesting discussion.
 
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entropychaser

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Jun 27, 2017
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Didn't all those people go through the fire academy? Can't they be used for 2 in-2 out requirements? Or work a debit day on the engine?
 
Darrell

Darrell

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CFDMarshal said:
I was doing that same calculation, I'm not sure there are 10 departments in the country with that many on shift personnel that could respond. Metro Nashville Tennessee has approximately 184 on shift! Wow just Wow!
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Tell me your joking??? 184. Wow. Just wow.
 
Darrell

Darrell

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fdhistorian said:
In addition to Houston, LA, and Chicago there is LA County. Note that some of those departments work three shifts, others four shifts. No department staffs units with as many people and many more units would need to be present to equal the number of FDNY firefighters. No other department can respond as many chief officers or staff. No other municipal department covers five counties. (CALFire is a state agency and USFS is federal.)
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NJFFS has around 2000, (if you count the folks who are on call volunteers) and 89 full staffed, and that 89 aren't even fully firefighters, its divided among professional firefighting personnel (division and section firewardens), forest fire observers, fleet repair personnel, office staff, and other support personnel.
 
Darrell

Darrell

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rescue_canada said:
On top of Chicago, Houston, LAcoFD and LAFD, Toronto up north has a minimum of 500 firefighters and max of 694 on shift. Although they're short between 200 and 600 depending on which report you go by.... However, they only have 29 Trucks, which run with 3 or 4. Brought me to the point that in North America, only Houston (38), Chicago (61) and Montreal (52) have enough Truck Co's to match FDNY's 38 on scene at this 8th. But Houston only runs with 4 and Montreal with 3 on a truck..
Click to expand...
I'm partly confused about the Trucks part, wouldn't LAFD, and LACoFD match FDNY?
 
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