Los Angeles, CA- Multi-Alarm Fire 07-30-13
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9364 Glen Oaks Blvd., Sun Valley
Rundown:
Engine 24, Engine 7, Engine 77
Task Force 60, Task Force 89, Task Force 98
Light Force 74, Light Force 88
Battalion 10, Battalion 12, Battalion 14, Battalion 15, Battalion 5
Division 3
Rescue 77, Rescue 889, Rescue 89, Rescue 898
EMS 15
USAR 27, USAR 88
EA 1
Arson 2
http://www.lafd.blogspot.com/2013/07/lafd-handles-greater-alarm-structure.html
Rundown:
Engine 24, Engine 7, Engine 77
Task Force 60, Task Force 89, Task Force 98
Light Force 74, Light Force 88
Battalion 10, Battalion 12, Battalion 14, Battalion 15, Battalion 5
Division 3
Rescue 77, Rescue 889, Rescue 89, Rescue 898
EMS 15
USAR 27, USAR 88
EA 1
Arson 2
http://www.lafd.blogspot.com/2013/07/lafd-handles-greater-alarm-structure.html
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LA what is the difference between a task force and a light task force. I know there have been budget cuys, just curious from ChiTown
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Grumps
A task force is a fully staffed engine, the light force engine truck combo.
In LAFD and LacoFD, a Light force is made up of a tiller, crewed by three Ffs and an Officer, the 5th FF drives the accompanying engine, that travels with the Tiller, making a Light force. If the station then has a seperate engine company and that goes with the tiller and Light Force engine, with the addition of the fully staffed engine it then becomes a task force.
Take LAFD station 27 Hollywood, it has Engine 27, a KME engine, and Light Force 27, made up of an ALF Tiller and a Pierce Engine, staffed four and one. The Tiller always responds with its engine, in FDNY parlance i guess it would be termed a 2nd piece, and when doing so is a light force.
If a call comes in for the whole house and the call dictates a taskforce response, LF 27 will respond, along with E27, making it Task Force 27. I think a Batt chief also makes up a TF but not sure about that.
So with just the tiller and its 2nd piece (an engine crewed by 1 FF of the truck) its a Light force, whack a fully staffed engine onto it, it becomes a Task Force.
Hope that makes sense.
JT
A task force is a fully staffed engine, the light force engine truck combo.
In LAFD and LacoFD, a Light force is made up of a tiller, crewed by three Ffs and an Officer, the 5th FF drives the accompanying engine, that travels with the Tiller, making a Light force. If the station then has a seperate engine company and that goes with the tiller and Light Force engine, with the addition of the fully staffed engine it then becomes a task force.
Take LAFD station 27 Hollywood, it has Engine 27, a KME engine, and Light Force 27, made up of an ALF Tiller and a Pierce Engine, staffed four and one. The Tiller always responds with its engine, in FDNY parlance i guess it would be termed a 2nd piece, and when doing so is a light force.
If a call comes in for the whole house and the call dictates a taskforce response, LF 27 will respond, along with E27, making it Task Force 27. I think a Batt chief also makes up a TF but not sure about that.
So with just the tiller and its 2nd piece (an engine crewed by 1 FF of the truck) its a Light force, whack a fully staffed engine onto it, it becomes a Task Force.
Hope that makes sense.
JT
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So if I have a garage fire I would get Light Task Force 1, E-1 would run an attack line and truckies would do everything else. If it was my house it would be TF-1, two engines and the truck, one engine and the truck fully manned, the second engine is a second peice company.
Just to try and explain a little more. It is a house with two engines and a truck. If one engine gets a run (1 off/3 FFs), then the other engine and the truck will remain in quarters for a second call if needed. That engine and truck respond together as a Lite Force.
Grump, they respond together if they are all in quarters. It just splits them up for a single unit response. Where most places have a seperate Engine and truck co manned, due to manning on the second engine, the truck also responds.
Grump, they respond together if they are all in quarters. It just splits them up for a single unit response. Where most places have a seperate Engine and truck co manned, due to manning on the second engine, the truck also responds.
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You are correct Bill. Depending on the level of the EMS call. The first company out is the Engine. The 2nd call that comes in gets the Lite Force (Truck Co, engine with driver only) Structure Fire, Auto Accident with Pin, LZ set up, empties the house if all available, otherwise they fill it out with other companies.
Bill, CFDMarshal, anesti, and Rodent251 are all correct.
The definition of a Task Force from the LAFD's website: http://lafd.org/apparatus/111-fire-a-rescue-resources/295-lafd-task-force
From my knowledge, a "Task Force" in L.A. is made up of 3 pieces of apparatus, the Engine Company, the 200 Series Pump Engine Company, and the Truck Company. For example: Engine 27, Engine 227, Truck 27. When responding as a "Light Force", the main Engine Company is not included in the response. A Light Force in L.A. consists of the 200 Series Pump Engine and the Truck. For example, Engine 227 and Truck 27.
A little history. Task Forces originated during the Watts Riots of the 1960's. Department officials determined that it was safer and more effective for multiple pieces of apparatus from the safe fire station to respond together, especially in tougher neighborhoods. Also, more apparatus responding from the same fire station meant that other fire stations didn't have to be tied up at the same fire or incident. Basically, one fire station could handle your average structural fire by itself. Thus, there wasn't any 2nd or 3rd due units, just a Task Force from one station, accompanied by a Battalion Chief. Prior to the Task Force, fire stations only had either 1 Engine or 1 Engine and a Truck in the same firehouse. With the Task Force initially came what is known in NYC as "Second Section" companies. On June 1st, 1966, Heavy Duty Task Force 9 was organized, becoming the first Task Force in the LAFD's history. When it was first founded, a Task Force, or Heavy-Duty Task Force as it was initially referred to, consisted of 4 pieces of apparatus, the Engine (or Triple Combination Pumper, Triple for short), the Wagon, the Pump, and the Truck. The Engine was the backbone of the Task Force, and had a pump, hose, and a tank. The Wagon I believe also had a pump, hose, and tank with the addition of either a Telesquirt or Snorkel device. The Pump only had a Pump and extra equipment, possibly with some 3" supply hose. The Truck was your standard "Truck Company" by definition, and always a tiller, as they still are today. At first, there were only a handful of these "Heavy Task Forces".
Here's a picture of "Heavy Duty Task Force 3" in Downtown L.A.
And "Heavy Duty Task Force 9", the city's first Task Force. Note the Snorkel for Wagon 9.
And "Heavy Duty Task Force 9" in the early '70's, after the Snorkel for Wagon 9 was replaced by a Telesqurt device.
Originally, Task Forces were staffed by anywhere from 15-18 men. Eventually, many fire stations across the city had Task Forces, only without the Snorkel or Telesquirt 3rd Engine. Only the original "Heavy Duty Task Forces" had those. As the '70's progressed, so did budget cuts. Manning was gradually cut from the Task Forces. Eventually, the "Wagon" piece was dissolved, meaning no more Snorkels or Telesquirts. The Heavy Duty Task Forces that had consisted of 4 pieces were cut down to 3 pieces like the rest of the Task Forces throughout the city. Thus, Task Forces were now comprised of an Engine, a Pump, and a Truck, which they still are today.
Here is the original "Task Force 10" from the early '70's. Note, only 3 rigs and no Snorkel or Telesqurt.
When these 3 pieces of apparatus respond together as a "Task Force", they are staffed by 3 FF's and 1 Officer on the Engine, 4 FF's and 1 Officer on the Truck, and 1 FF on the 200 Series Pump Engine.
The 200 Series Pump Engine is basically a supplemental unit, or secondary unit for either the main Engine or the Truck, depending on what the response is. The 200 Series Engine, I believe, carries less equipment than the main Engine.
Today, when responding as a "Light Force", the 4th firefighter from the Truck jumps on the 200 Series Pump Engine, to make it 3 FF's and 1 Officer on the Truck and 2 FF's on the 200 Series Engine.
Very rarely does the Truck respond by itself. It is almost always accompanied by the 200 Series Engine. Likewise, a 200 Series Engine always responds with the Truck and never by itself, similar to Chicago's Squad concept. Therefore, a Light Force is considered one "Company" in the East Coast vernacular. Thus, a Task Force is comprised of two "Companies", the Engine Company and the Light Force.
Additionally, while a Task Force responds to calls like a Structure Fire or serious MVA, a Light Force may respond to calls such as an Elevator Rescue or minor MVA's. A Task Force can be comprised by units from two different fire stations, depending if an Engine or a Light Force from one station is unavailable.
The definition of a Task Force from the LAFD's website: http://lafd.org/apparatus/111-fire-a-rescue-resources/295-lafd-task-force
From my knowledge, a "Task Force" in L.A. is made up of 3 pieces of apparatus, the Engine Company, the 200 Series Pump Engine Company, and the Truck Company. For example: Engine 27, Engine 227, Truck 27. When responding as a "Light Force", the main Engine Company is not included in the response. A Light Force in L.A. consists of the 200 Series Pump Engine and the Truck. For example, Engine 227 and Truck 27.
A little history. Task Forces originated during the Watts Riots of the 1960's. Department officials determined that it was safer and more effective for multiple pieces of apparatus from the safe fire station to respond together, especially in tougher neighborhoods. Also, more apparatus responding from the same fire station meant that other fire stations didn't have to be tied up at the same fire or incident. Basically, one fire station could handle your average structural fire by itself. Thus, there wasn't any 2nd or 3rd due units, just a Task Force from one station, accompanied by a Battalion Chief. Prior to the Task Force, fire stations only had either 1 Engine or 1 Engine and a Truck in the same firehouse. With the Task Force initially came what is known in NYC as "Second Section" companies. On June 1st, 1966, Heavy Duty Task Force 9 was organized, becoming the first Task Force in the LAFD's history. When it was first founded, a Task Force, or Heavy-Duty Task Force as it was initially referred to, consisted of 4 pieces of apparatus, the Engine (or Triple Combination Pumper, Triple for short), the Wagon, the Pump, and the Truck. The Engine was the backbone of the Task Force, and had a pump, hose, and a tank. The Wagon I believe also had a pump, hose, and tank with the addition of either a Telesquirt or Snorkel device. The Pump only had a Pump and extra equipment, possibly with some 3" supply hose. The Truck was your standard "Truck Company" by definition, and always a tiller, as they still are today. At first, there were only a handful of these "Heavy Task Forces".
Here's a picture of "Heavy Duty Task Force 3" in Downtown L.A.
And "Heavy Duty Task Force 9", the city's first Task Force. Note the Snorkel for Wagon 9.
And "Heavy Duty Task Force 9" in the early '70's, after the Snorkel for Wagon 9 was replaced by a Telesqurt device.
Originally, Task Forces were staffed by anywhere from 15-18 men. Eventually, many fire stations across the city had Task Forces, only without the Snorkel or Telesquirt 3rd Engine. Only the original "Heavy Duty Task Forces" had those. As the '70's progressed, so did budget cuts. Manning was gradually cut from the Task Forces. Eventually, the "Wagon" piece was dissolved, meaning no more Snorkels or Telesquirts. The Heavy Duty Task Forces that had consisted of 4 pieces were cut down to 3 pieces like the rest of the Task Forces throughout the city. Thus, Task Forces were now comprised of an Engine, a Pump, and a Truck, which they still are today.
Here is the original "Task Force 10" from the early '70's. Note, only 3 rigs and no Snorkel or Telesqurt.
When these 3 pieces of apparatus respond together as a "Task Force", they are staffed by 3 FF's and 1 Officer on the Engine, 4 FF's and 1 Officer on the Truck, and 1 FF on the 200 Series Pump Engine.
The 200 Series Pump Engine is basically a supplemental unit, or secondary unit for either the main Engine or the Truck, depending on what the response is. The 200 Series Engine, I believe, carries less equipment than the main Engine.
Today, when responding as a "Light Force", the 4th firefighter from the Truck jumps on the 200 Series Pump Engine, to make it 3 FF's and 1 Officer on the Truck and 2 FF's on the 200 Series Engine.
Very rarely does the Truck respond by itself. It is almost always accompanied by the 200 Series Engine. Likewise, a 200 Series Engine always responds with the Truck and never by itself, similar to Chicago's Squad concept. Therefore, a Light Force is considered one "Company" in the East Coast vernacular. Thus, a Task Force is comprised of two "Companies", the Engine Company and the Light Force.
Additionally, while a Task Force responds to calls like a Structure Fire or serious MVA, a Light Force may respond to calls such as an Elevator Rescue or minor MVA's. A Task Force can be comprised by units from two different fire stations, depending if an Engine or a Light Force from one station is unavailable.
"fdny1075k", I don't know how you do it but you sure got this stuff down.
I remember when the LA Task Forces were first started, I used to go top the library with my father. they always had the latest issue of Fire Engeering on the shelf for reading. I remember seeing those pictures and some of the story in that magazine.
On another thread here, I believe in History we were discussing the riots in Detroit in the late 60s. Another concept that came out of the riots was this LA Task Force.
While LA City had the Task Force concept to deal with riot conditions, the FDNY had what I believe was (probadly still is) All units circular 138 (?). In there are several pages of procedures for the FDNY to deal with unrest or civil disturbances. Rather than Task Forces, they are called Fire Control Teams (FCTs). There are numerous pages of details in that one specific all units circular.
And I believe the person responsible for organizing and writing most of that circular was the father of site member "mack", who was a FDNY Battalion Chief.
I remember when the LA Task Forces were first started, I used to go top the library with my father. they always had the latest issue of Fire Engeering on the shelf for reading. I remember seeing those pictures and some of the story in that magazine.
On another thread here, I believe in History we were discussing the riots in Detroit in the late 60s. Another concept that came out of the riots was this LA Task Force.
While LA City had the Task Force concept to deal with riot conditions, the FDNY had what I believe was (probadly still is) All units circular 138 (?). In there are several pages of procedures for the FDNY to deal with unrest or civil disturbances. Rather than Task Forces, they are called Fire Control Teams (FCTs). There are numerous pages of details in that one specific all units circular.
And I believe the person responsible for organizing and writing most of that circular was the father of site member "mack", who was a FDNY Battalion Chief.
In the 1970s, FDNY riot response team consisted of 1 BC, 2 engines, 1 truck w/NYPD escort. Selected companies were selected as command post firehouses (usually had large street to stage and located just outside of anticipated trouble neighborhoods). There were selected command posts in Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan and Queens. When command posts and response teams went into service, boro dispatch would relay run to command post which would then dispatch 1, 2 or more teams. Response vehicle order was PDNY unit, 2 engines, truck and then BC. I had some pictures of staging area teams I will try to find.
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You are spot on "FDNY1075K" According to a friend of mine who is a retired BC LA City, the 200 series engines are fully equipped in case they need to staff with OT FF's during brush fire season or times of emergency.
On another note the Crown Snorkel pictured there was in service at FS 11 when I visited in 1979. The rig had amber rotators on the front! no red lights at all! Strange to this Tennessean!
On another note the Crown Snorkel pictured there was in service at FS 11 when I visited in 1979. The rig had amber rotators on the front! no red lights at all! Strange to this Tennessean!
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For someone reason I thought that the 200 Engine could also be placed in service as a full engine if the main engine went OOS for repairs. The members would then take the 200 Engine and run it and the truck would run alone and be just Truck XX instead of lightforce XX
Anyone know the truth
Anyone know the truth
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How does LA County FD's configuration differ from LA City FD's?
Yes Tom and Bill, you are correct. The 200 Series Engines are fully equipped. My mistake. I think back in the day, the Pump rig in the Task Force had less equipment, but not in the present day. The only real difference between the main Engines and the 200 Series Engines is the staffing.