Seagrave Marauder II Pumpers

[Chowson]

I was told yesterday they are being bid out again.

Ah....great, so we'll see new rigs when?

 

[londonfireguy]

I would say not this year, For what I understand of the bidding process, its a long old process. Would be interesting to know, perhaps from those in the 'know' what happened for the bidding to have to go out a second time...

I imagine we will see the new squads and HP pumpers before we see these new engines.

JT

 

[SoHoTruckin20]

what engines are due up next

 

[FDNYBuff97]

what engines are due up next

2002/2003 I believe

 

[Len90]

what engines are due up next

2002/2003 I believe

That is correct. There are I believe (23) 2002 Seagrave pumpers currently in active service that will need to be replaced followed by the huge batch of 2003s.

 

[AuxWarYearsCapt]

Hopefully Redlight can provide more info....I spoke to a mechanic and this is what he told me........KME was the lowest  bidder and had the contact.....Something is now right throw....

The contact its for between 100 & 110 units.......KME PLACED A BID FOR TOTAL AMOUNT OF 5 MILLION DOLLARS........With that price I figured the FDNY are going to receive matchbox trucks.

 

[guitarman314]

Hopefully Redlight can provide more info....I spoke to a mechanic and this is what he told me........KME was the lowest  bidder and had the contact.....Something is now right throw....

The contact its for between 100 & 110 units.......KME PLACED A BID FOR TOTAL AMOUNT OF 5 MILLION DOLLARS........With that price I figured the FDNY are going to receive matchbox trucks.

  100 to 110 trucks should be 50 million :

 

[Bulldog]

The contact its for between 100 & 110 units.......KME PLACED A BID FOR TOTAL AMOUNT OF 5 MILLION DOLLARS........With that price I figured the FDNY are going to receive matchbox trucks.

If $5,000,000 was their actual bid whoever wrote it is sure a lot of trouble!  For $50,000 per truck you can't even get the chassis!  They either completely misunderstood the bid or just royally Scre__d up!

 

[AuxWarYearsCapt]

I totally agree with you Bulldog......My mouth dropped when he told me....I even asked him again since I thought I heard him wrong.....Somebody was smoking some funny sit to give that quote

Hopefully someone will talk to redlight, and the real numbers will be known

 

[grumpy grizzly]

I am curious why E-One would not bid on a 100+ contract. I am NOT a SPEC guy but I beleive E-One has an aluminum body whick is not salt corrisive. I am just curious as to why?Boston has E-One rigs and it snows just as much here.

 

[fltpara16]

E-One I would guess, like many manufacturers, does not want to deal with the 5 year warranty...

 

[Bulldog]

I am curious why E-One would not bid on a 100+ contract. I am NOT a SPEC guy but I beleive E-One has an aluminum body whick is not salt corrisive. I am just curious as to why?Boston has E-One rigs and it snows just as much here.

One problem with aluminum is that over time it is very susceptible to cracking from fatigue and stress, something FDNY trucks certainly get a lot of!  It may not be the case here but combining it with the five year warranty could certainly create some major issues for E-One.  My guess is that the warranty is probably one of the major issues preventing Pierce from bidding on trucks for New York.  The rescues would probably have been an exception because of the small number.

 

[Chowson]

Okay....here is some good info. (spoke to some people in the know at work today, my Co. has one of those 2002s). KME was the low bid at about 46 million for 91 engines.  That bid was a couple million under and rumor is KME didn't meet the spec.  The job has been bid out again.  It is still pending.

 

[FDNYBuff97]

I'm not sure but I really think the city will go with Seagrave , they chose them for The Squads , Tillers and 95 Ft Tower Ladders , I know because of $$$$ but why not just go with Seagrave ? Nowbim confused , I've seen the pics of the new 95 Ft's and they have the Marauder II cab , will the tillers and Squads be the same ? Are there any other Cans that Seagrave has ? I've seen flat style cabs that are the Marauder II's similar to the Segrave Commanders , like squad 61 but a little bigger.

 

[ladder197]

I am curious why E-One would not bid on a 100+ contract. I am NOT a SPEC guy but I beleive E-One has an aluminum body whick is not salt corrisive. I am just curious as to why?Boston has E-One rigs and it snows just as much here.

One problem with aluminum is that over time it is very susceptible to cracking from fatigue and stress, something FDNY trucks certainly get a lot of!  It may not be the case here but combining it with the five year warranty could certainly create some major issues for E-One.  My guess is that the warranty is probably one of the major issues preventing Pierce from bidding on trucks for New York.  The rescues would probably have been an exception because of the small number.

E-One would have spec'd their stainless line( aka Saulsbury, now Eone stainless) as they did with the rescues, Tacs, High rise units, hazmat etc. After these rigs went out of warranty the vendor had absolutely no interest in bidding on anymore FDNY apparatus, reason being the 5yr warranty and other circumstances. They did however bid on the new ESU trucks a few yrs ago, IDK the outcome I was long gone from that lovely place of employment.

 

[fltpara16]

From what I understand, the FDNY has a very rigid spec that very few manufacturers can meet.  I have been told (I'm not from New York) the engine spec that Seagrave builds is very specific to FDNY.  If this is the case, could New York City award a sole source bid contract to Seagrave to get the order moving.  My guess is no, since I am sure that this violates many bid procedures and laws, but I thought I would ask. 

 

[Bulldog]

You're certainly right that having a sole source contract for something like this would be illegal in most places and I'm sure it is in New York City.  Very few if any municipality or corporation would allow anything with a contract value anywhere near this large to be sole sourced.  Some fire departments have even gotten in trouble writing their specifications based on the specifications of the truck they want to win the bidding process.  In order to be legal specifications have to be broad enough that more than one vendor has the opportunity to meet them.  In the case of FDNY I'm sure many manufacturers can meet the actual specifications for the trucks but don't want to face the potential problems that result from the five year warranty that is required.

 

[Chowson]

I'm not sure but I really think the city will go with Seagrave , they chose them for The Squads , Tillers and 95 Ft Tower Ladders , I know because of $$$$ but why not just go with Seagrave ? Nowbim confused , I've seen the pics of the new 95 Ft's and they have the Marauder II cab , will the tillers and Squads be the same ? Are there any other Cans that Seagrave has ? I've seen flat style cabs that are the Marauder II's similar to the Segrave Commanders , like squad 61 but a little bigger.

As the guys explained, CHOICE Is not a part of the bidding process.  It is, in fact, illegal to sole source during the bidding process.  The spec is rigid, but does allow for any builder to compete equally.  If someone doesn't bid, it's a sure bet (as Bulldog said) that they don't want to undertake the warranty responsibility.  The Ferrara ladder warranty has cost them a great deal so far.  They have brought mechanics from all over the country to keep up with the work load in NY.  I the long term, the hope they'll have the kinks worked out and the contract will make money in a volume sense, if not a huge margin on each unit.

 

[fltpara16]

I thought that would be the case with the bids, that sole sourcing such a large contract would be illegal.  One question to throw out there:  I know the Mack's were looked at as the toughest apparatus that FDNY ever put on the streets.  Of course, they are long gone.  Other than Seagrave, which I know there have been problems with in recent years, are there any other manufacturers that FDNY members feel could hold up to the rigorous use in New York City?  Where I work, we are a Pierce customer. They make a good product, as long as the spec is well written.  I know Pierce does not want to deal with the 5 year warranty required by New York.

 

[Bulldog]

I thought that would be the case with the bids, that sole sourcing such a large contract would be illegal.  One question to throw out there:  I know the Mack's were looked at as the toughest apparatus that FDNY ever put on the streets.  Of course, they are long gone.  Other than Seagrave, which I know there have been problems with in recent years, are there any other manufacturers that FDNY members feel could hold up to the rigorous use in New York City?  Where I work, we are a Pierce customer. They make a good product, as long as the spec is well written.  I know Pierce does not want to deal with the 5 year warranty required by New York.

I feel the problem is not really with the manufacturers as much as it is the complexity that is now required.  The old Macks had extremely limited levels of electronics and other sophistication.  The valves were mechanical, the pressure regulator was mechanical, the engine was a plain diesel with no pollution control or other add-ons, there weren't foam systems nor automatic transmissions just to mention a few things.  The levels of sophistication that are these are required by new regulations or specified continue to make the trucks much harder to maintain and more expensive.  I don't believe that any department including FDNY would be satisfied with the old Macks today even if they could get an exemption from the specifications!  They were great for their time but..  Th th.