The Other War Years

[nfd2004]

A few memories from Providence, R.I. Thanks goes to Ray Taylor (www.pcfn.org  , Car 4)

            www.intap.net/~pcfn/feature4.htm

 

[Bigandy]

I have an Uncle who was on in D.C. for over 20 years on the Rescue. I'll see if I can squeeze some stories out of him.

 

[nfd2004]

How about a story from the Boston Area. I remember a Buff Hangout at a Howard Johnson's Restraunt at Mass Ave and I believe it was Hampton St. I think "grumpy grizzley" is from that area and he may remember this. They used to call the place "Whip City" because of all the large whip antennas on the cars that hung out there. At that time Boston Fire was on 33.74 mhz so the large antennas worked perfect at the time. Actually the buffs there are called "Sparks". Like Angies Market, opposite FDNYs Eng 82/Lad 31, that Ho Jo's did a Great business with the "Sparks".
 A couple of friends of mine had brought me up there for my first trip. Right around the corner was the Shops, and the quarters of Boston's Engine 43 and Ladder 20. They were pretty busy companies, so the "Sparks" would always get a show when the rigs went out. Even when they'd come back from a run, the Boston Brothers would hit the air horns and maybe throw on the lights as to give the "Sparks" a "Thumbs up'.
 This was around 1976 when I made my first trip up there. We caught a Second Alarm in Boston on Washington St (I think). I know the fire reminded me of the streets of the Bronx as the job was in a five story brick, which had the elevated subway right out the front windows. Like Jerome Ave in the Bronx. It was very similiar to what I would see in NYC except at the time, Boston had no Tower Ladders. Later that night we caught a Fourth Alarm in Chelsea, a very congested city outside of Boston. It was a two story brick commerical property with fire through the roof and many wood frames for exposures. I remember seeing Cambridge and Boston Cos there also, on mutual aid.
I know that Boston Ladder 20 and that Ho Jo later closed down. I haven't been up there in a while, but I think Engine 43 is still in business.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

You make me cry. You are correct, Ho-Jos was a good site. When I came back from Vietnam I was also at HoJo. But this was in 1972 and I had a hand-held scanner that picked up BFD and Metro Fire. I had a really great buff friend, Frank San Servino anf there was an area place that served great clams. Because of an idiot mayor, E43/L20 were placed OOS due to budget cutbacks A friend from L20 recommended for the Boston Sparks and I was accepted. Some pissed-off so called buff torched our quarters, I had made some models for the club. I reallly miss my Boston buffs, stay safe my friends

 

[nfd2004]

"grumpy", I'm glad that you remember that. I didn't mean to make you cry. But sometimes I cry myself thinking about some of those Great Buff Places that we all hung out in. Whether it was Boston's Ho Jo's or the Bronx Angies Market. Long before web sites like this was started. We'd all hang around and talk about the job we caught the other night. Or maybe riding with such and such company and running from box to box all night long. But I really can't remember any night where we didn't chase a fire, or maybe a few fires. They were such busy times. I guess it had to end sometime, or there would be nothing left to a lot of these cities. As it was, in most places, half the block would be burned out. And it wasn't just one block, it was several blocks. Even entire neighborhoods.
  It's Great that you can also relate to that place. I was hoping that would happen. I wasn't aware that they had closed both Engine 43 and Ladder 20. Boston had a very active buff group in the Boston Sparks. I remember meeting a few guys from there. Maybe you were one of them. And they really knew their stuff.
  I remember listening to Metro fire also. That was the Mutual Aid channel. There was a very big use of mutual aid even back in those days in the Boston area. If a city requested mutual aid from another city, they used that channel to make the contact. All the cities in the area monitored that.
  Well as you can see, "it really is a small world out there". "grumpy grizzly" and I hung out in the same Boston Buff Lot some 35 years ago. Boston had all Tillers. I think Ladder 18 was running an old Diamond Reo. And Boston rigs were being painted Lime Green.

 

[rdm258]

My generation sure did miss out on some great "buffing". Thank you to all who contribute these stories so guys like myself can read them and only imagine what the brothers before us seen and done with the equipment they had. Keep on sharing your stories, I am sure I am not alone, when say, I really enjoy this Post. Thanks --nfd. What was the North Hudson area of Jersey doing around this time? Were they also hit with heavy fire?

 

[nfd2004]

My generation sure did miss out on some great "buffing". Thank you to all who contribute these stories so guys like myself can read them and only imagine what the brothers before us seen and done with the equipment they had. Keep on sharing your stories, I am sure I am not alone, when say, I really enjoy this Post. Thanks --nfd. What was the North Hudson area of Jersey doing around this time? Were they also hit with heavy fire?

  Rob, all those cities were burning. At the time all those smaller citiesoperated as seperate depts. I assume your talking about West New York, Guttenburg, etc now all part of Northern Hudson County Fire Dept. In addition there was also Newark, Jersey City, Elizabeth etc where fires were all part of daily life. I can't speak from my own experience, because I just really didn't spend that much time there. But from what I heard and read, they were all burning.
  I did have a few friends from the area though. I remember a guy by the name of Tom Ernest (from Springfield), and two brothers, one Bobby P......(retired Batt Chief from Elizabeth), and his brother Walter P.....(retired police officer from Irvington). They were big time buffs at the time. We'd sometimes get together for a Providence Buff Trip.
  Yes Rob, as I seem to remember, that part of N.J. saw it's share too. And thanks for the kind words. But we just pass on the stories. Others fought the fires.

 

[vbcapt]

My late cousin was a retired Deputy Chief from Elizabeth (Al Urban). When he was a Capt. in the 70's there was plenty of work (sometimes too much) during that time period. For those that do not know Elizabeth is about 10-12 sq miles, pop. about 105K with 7 Engines, 3 Ladders, 1 Rescue, 1 Battalion and1 Deputy on duty. A 2nd alarm just about dumps the entire City. Back in the late 80's early 90's I used to ride with Rescue 1 and work along with the fellas. They were and still are a great bunch of guys. In the early 90's the fire activity maintained a steady pace but nothing like the "other war years"

 

[guitarman314]

  Elizabeth had some Mack B pumpers that were workhorses.

 

[nfd2004]

Bridgeport's War Years continued:  As Bridgeport's War Years started to pick up, probadly one of the busiest Engine Co's was Engine 2. The busy FDNY companies had nothing on this outfit. In Engine 2's first due area was a housing project called "Father Panik Village". It had a reputation as one of "The Worst in the Country". I believe it consisted of about forty three brick buildings, each three stories high. This project was about eight square blocks. On a hot summer night crowds would gather. Somebody would set a dumpster or car on fire. As Engine 2 would pull in with their four man crew, they would be greeted with a storm of rocks and bottles. They would back out and wait for police. Usually before Engine 2 could return to the firehouse, another call would come in for "another" car fire or dumpster fire, near another building. Sometimes there would be numerous dumpsters on fire at the same time. Engine 6 would also be called in to help with the activity.
  In my years of buffing, some of the worst neighborhoods in this country, I never went into that housing project for any fire. It was just too dangerous. I spent hours in places like the South Bronx, Harlem, Brooklyn neighborhoods like Bed-Sty, and Brownsville. But Father Panik Village was one place myself and the other buffs knew to stay out of.
  On a hot night, you could almost feel it in the air. Engine 2 was going to see some real work before the night was over. The buffs knew it and so did the guys on the job. Then maybe 3 or 4 AM the sky was lite up with a fully involved vacant building.
  One such night was when the old Astor Theater burned on East Main St. and there was another building fire around the corner. I believe that street was Walter St and I remember the fire was in an old school. Two jobs within a block of each other. Engine 2 did "Double Duty" that night as the pump operator of Engine 2 pumped lines to "Both Fires".
  Engine 2 was later closed down. We couldn't believe it at the time. This was one busy tough outfit. Those guys that worked Engine 2 Loved it as bad as it was. Engine 2's work load was now split up between Engine 1 and Engine 6. Today, Engine 2's old firehouse on Clarence St is now the home of Bridgeport's Police East Side Precient. And Father Panik Village, the entire project was eventually torn down.
 
 
 

 

[johnd248]

Right on Willy D.  I lived in Brooklyn for 30 years before moving to CT.  I worked in Bridgeport from 1985 to 1993 and missed most of the fire duty.  In the years of 1973 to 1999 when I lived in neighboring Fairfield, I often told my wife and family that I felt much safer in NYC be it Harlem, South Bronx, or Bed-Stuy than I did in Bridgeport.

 

[CFDMarshal]

NFD I think you mentioned Boston and taking in a Chelsea Box on time. When I came on the job in 76 we heard and later viewed a movie of the Chelsea Conflagration of 72 or 73. Just wondering if any of you Nor'easters could share a little run down on that event. As RDM can now testify, we just don't have them packed that close in the south!

 

[nfd2004]

Yeah John, you know the story of what I'm talking about. That Bridgeport was one nasty place back in those days. And as you well know, that Father Panik Village wasn't the only dangerous place. You had to watch your back every minute. From around 1975-1990 Bridgeport, Ct., a city of about 140,000 at the time, saw entire neighborhoods get burned out.

 

[nfd2004]

NFD I think you mentioned Boston and taking in a Chelsea Box on time. When I came on the job in 76 we heard and later viewed a movie of the Chelsea Conflagration of 72 or 73. Just wondering if any of you Nor'easters could share a little run down on that event. As RDM can now testify, we just don't have them packed that close in the south!

  I do remember that fire CFD. I'm sure "grumpy grizzley" was around there when that happened. I do remember because of those closely packed streets in Chelsea. At the time they had a few smaller sized Engines that were able to get into some of those streets. Chelsea would run a smaller Engine with the regular sized Engine as a two piece Engine Company. That was even before the so-called Mini Maxi Concept of some cities like Syracuse, N.Y.
  Yes, the North East is loaded with tightly packed streets of wood frames. The kind of place where if you don't get in and knock down a smaller fire quickly, you might loose several buildings. In those earlier days, there were no smoke detectors, no cell phones out there for early detection, and fires weren't really investigated as they are now. As a result, when the rigs arrived, there would be fire already blowing out the windows of these closely packed frames. It was a matter of trying to save the neighborhood, not the building.

 

[mack]

I had to drive through Bridgeport, Father Panik Village area, doors locked, not stopping for red lights.  I think it is gone now.  I understand it was originally a model public housing project for over 5000 people built about 1940. Here are some newspaper descriptions of what it turned into: 
    "The 1960s...the vacant apartments were filled with large, single-parent, welfare families...Vandalism was rampant. It was not unusual for the housing authority to replace 10,000 panes of glass a year. Rioting marked much of the late 1960s, with bands of teens and young adults firebombing everything from the stores in the plaza to the police cruisers and fire engines that responded ...
By 1970 police were being dispatched to Father Panik Village three to a cruiser, so one could stay behind and guard the car...the ground was thick with broken glass, not grass...in the 1970s, when heroin became prolific...drive-through drugs...the state's most notorious drive-through drug market, a convenient six-tenths of a mile from I-95...By 1986 vacant apartments even became "crack houses,'' with dealers and junkies invoking squatters' rights...Father Panik got a reputation as a place where you could buy drugs, Prostitution, illegal liquor, high-powered weapons"

 

[mack]

Chelsea fire of 1973 - a War Years conflagration -
Chelsea borders Boston, MA.  It is small in size but is one of the most densely populated cities in America, with over 17,000 people per square mile.  The city has many old, diverse crowded neighborhoods, older wood frame housing (triple deckers), a very good/busy fire department (currently 3 engines/2 trucks) and is part of a MassMetro mutual aid system.   The 1973 Chelsea fire destroyed 360 buildings and over 18 city blocks.

Pictures:
http://www.olgp.net/chs/photos/fire1973/fire73.htm
http://www.olgp.net/chs/photos/fire1973/chelseafire.htm
http://www.firenews.org/chelsea73.html

Articles:
http://www.celebrateboston.com/disasters/great-chelsea-fire-1973.htm

Audio (Initial alarm struck/working fire reported/multiples transmitted):
http://www.kdd985.com/conflagrationaudio.html
Interesting to listen to dispatcher debating location and correct box when 2nd alarm requested.  

Department info:
http://www.massmetrofire.org/chelsea.html

 

[nfd2004]

Thanks "mack" for the two above stories about Father Panik Village in Bridgeport and The Chelsea Conflagration of 1973. I remember when the cops rode three to a car. I read somewhere that Father Panik Village was considered the "Fifth Worst Housing Project" in the Country. It sure put Bridgeport on the map in those days. As I remember too, if a visiting nurse had to go in there for a patient, a police officer would also accompany the visiting nurse and stay until the nurse was safely out of the place.
 My brother (georged4997) was on the fire dept then. Over the years, he worked several of the companies that would go into FPV on a regular basis. I'm sure he's got a few stories to tell. So what do you say there Brother Georgie. How about it !!!!
 And thanks again mack for sharing your info with us. "Yes, those were the days".

  Mack, just went through the Chelsea info you gave us. Great pictures and audio. Thanks very much.

  Bill Dennis (AKA WILLY "D")

 

[georged4997]

worked some jobs at fpv. you always stayed in pairs. we always had a police escort.
i remember a apartment fire engine 2 was at the doorway to the apartment. they told
me (i had a mask on at the time) that a guy was still inside. the place was charged with
smoke . i found the guy on the kitchen floor drunk as a skunk. i dragged him out, the whole
time his head was bouncing off the concrete floor. i remember looking up the street seeing
the guy at the bus and wondering about the big headache and knot on his head he would
have he next day. fpv was like a bomb was dropped there.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Yes I took this fire in. At the time I was attending a local community college working on my associates degree in Fire Science/Safety Technology. A lot of great guys from BFD E17/L7, E24/L23 and the other ghetto houses were in my classes. The day of the fire (Sunday) I was at my girlfriends house when the news came in. She asked if I wanted to go to Chelsea. I was shocked and I said yes. This fire started in the rag section of Chelsea where stuff was collected. We made god time getting there, as I monitored Metro/BFD there were not enough comapnies to contain this fire. After 6 hours companies made a desperate stop at a local high school. If they did not make this stop who knows how far the fire would have progressed. My pictures were donated to the college for their program. Unfortunately my girlfriend was diagnosed with cancer. We still married but 2 years later she died. The members of E33/L15 and E37/26 allowed me to park at company quarters to visit her at the hospital. This fire was destined to happen. High fire loading, insufficient hydrants, low pressure and a city response of 3/2 was asking for trouble. Several months later another conflagration hit Chelsea, several blocks were consumed. One of my most treasured pics is a 1948 Mack working at this fire

 

[mack]

Another major Boston area fire during the War Years was the "2nd Great Lynn Fire" November 28, 1981.  Lynn is another densely populated city just North of Boston which did a lot of work during the 1970s and 1980s, like other cities and counties.  The fire originated in a vacant, 60x300, 8 story shoe factory in the center of many similar-type loft buildings.  The fire burned for 15 hours, destroyed 18 major buildings, damaged many more, and took over 700 firefighters form 80 different departments to bring under control.

Articles:
  http://www.box41.com/1981fire.htm

You Tube:
Great Lynn Fire 11-28-1981

Lynn staffed 9 Engine companies, 4 Ladders, 1 Heavy Rescue back then.  Now it has 6 Engines and 3 Ladders.
http://www.massmetrofire.org/lynn.html