100' Ferrara Rear Mount Aerials

kfd274 said:
9/25/2011

I was crossing VNB early this morning and saw an auto accident on VNB on Brooklyn bound side, upper level.

E 242 blocking traffic toward SI.  E 151 on other side, and up pulls a brand new spanking L 81. Looked great.  B 21, E 162 and R 5 were staged at Administartion Building.  Didn't look like R 5 had their new rig.
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  I think you saw E161 not E151 and E152 was staged with R5 & BC21 ;)
 
guitarman314 said:
kfd274 said:
9/25/2011

I was crossing VNB early this morning and saw an auto accident on VNB on Brooklyn bound side, upper level.

E 242 blocking traffic toward SI.  E 151 on other side, and up pulls a brand new spanking L 81. Looked great.  B 21, E 162 and R 5 were staged at Administartion Building.  Didn't look like R 5 had their new rig.
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  I think you saw E161 not E151 and E152 was staged with R5 & BC21 ;)
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I don't know G'Man.  I thought I saw E 151, probably  was  152 on the bridge, and definately an E with 16x staging.  I know the hearing is going, but the need for new glasses :-[ :-[ :-[  oh my!!! :mad: :mad:
 
OK, then it must've been E161 or E160 at the staging area but definitely not E151 on or near the bridge unless they were passing by going  to or coming from the "Rock" or the Shops.
 
9/29/11: Just checked Ferrara's "In Production" page and L-38 looks all but complete, along with a few others that just don't have graphics applied yet.  Also, #4909 is now being built.
 
As of today, L156 is still sitting at The Rock.  Its been there for a while.  I'm not sure why, but it is most definitely not in service.
 
Many of the Ferrera aerial's are delivered however only 1 that has been placed in service L-81, many keep asking why but nobody seems to have an answer as to why the units are not in service. L123 is also at fire academy and has been for weeks.
 
The Reason why these rigs arent going directly into service is because once FDNY takes delivery of the rig a full diagnostic must be performed, along with extensive road testing, all done by Shop guys. They basically beat the crap out of it to ensure it can take the beating. After this, every member must be trained on the new rig. this can take a while since they take the company OOS for a trip to the rock to go over the rigs.  This is from a shops member a few weeks back.
 
TLwarrior said:
The Reason why these rigs arent going directly into service is because once FDNY takes delivery of the rig a full diagnostic must be performed, along with extensive road testing, all done by Shop guys. They basically beat the crap out of it to ensure it can take the beating. After this, every member must be trained on the new rig. this can take a while since they take the company OOS for a trip to the rock to go over the rigs.  This is from a shops member a few weeks back.
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Did this happen with the Rescues?? Because they went into service and are reportedly plagued with problems
 
Plauged is an understatement....not all Rescues in service..... 1 had parts taken off it to get another on the road...another had rear end shifted ...another broke the springs.... another not even given out yet (& they do not want it)....this is what happens when non Fire Fighting  people are put in charge & have the power to overule or ignore the Fire Fighting members of the apparatus committees...... a real shame .
 
68jk09 said:
.... another not even given out yet (& they do not want it)....
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I'm assuming you're talking about Rescue 1 who wants to keep their Pierce!  Of course that's what they all should be if the people who use them had anything to say about it.

It will be really interesting to see what else falls apart when they start trying to use all of the ladders and rescues in regular service!  Ferrera will go broke making all of the warranty repairs.
 
1) Everyone needs to stop toting Pierce as the greatest thing to happen to apparatus.  They're just another builder of custom trucks.

2) The quality is in the spec, not the brand on the front.

3) Lets not start with all this bashing B.S. until the rigs are actually IN the field and have been used for 6-12 months.  This is a brand new chassis with a brand new spec.  There will be issues and as long as they're corrected by Ferrara, all will be well.  No one will be able to make a reasonable claim to the quality of the apparatus until it has been through the ringer, tweaked by Ferrara and in the field for many months going through the actual paces of day to day operations.

Hey, maybe they'll suck.  Who knows, certainly not a single person here.  Why?  Because they've barely been around the block.  So, lets just take it easy on exclaiming they're failure and back off with the Pierce fanboy nonsense. 
 
Bulldog said:
68jk09 said:
.... another not even given out yet (& they do not want it)....
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I'm assuming you're talking about Rescue 1 who wants to keep their Pierce!
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I finally got around to photographing the Pierce when I went to the auto show this past Spring. The members really loved the Pierce and were sad that it was going to go. From what they were saying it was handling the abuse of NYC streets really well and was one of the best trucks they have had in years. I'm not going to bash any of the Ferraras until there are enough in service for a couple of months. I can understand the bugs with putting new trucks on the road. Remember there were lots of hold-ups and issues with getting the new 75' ladders rolling. Also some of the new Marauder engines have had issues. Just think of E-160 off the top of my head.

I am a bit puzzled right now as to why there is only 1 ladder in service right now. I understand why 81 went first since they needed the truck, but some of the others shouldn't have been far behind.
 
JohnnyBopp said:
2) The quality is in the spec, not the brand on the front.
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Not really, the spec determines how suitable for the application the equipment is.  The manufacturer determines the quality!  Look at automobiles for example, you can buy a Kia or a Mercedes that meet the same specifications but which one do you think will be better in the long run?

While as everyone has said there's normally growing pains with any new truck that goes into service with FDNY the Pierce was an exception.  They were very few problems with it when it first went in service.  That's kind of telling especially when compared to the Ferrera rescues that are now trying to go into service.
 
I don't think it's telling at all, Bulldog.  Pierce has been building that chassis for a long time, and with rescue bodies on it.  Does that mean that everyone who has one is happy, or that they don't sometimes have problems?  No. The department where I live bought one of the first Pierce Velocity's to come off the line, and it has been what we used to call in the Air Force a "hangar queen" ever since it was delivered.  By that I mean it's been out of service about twice as long as it has been in, with one thing after another going out.  Is that telling on Pierce?  Not necessarily.  As others have repeatedly said in this thread: (1) ALL new models will have kinks in  them; (2) Just about all of the apparatus manufacturers turn out a quality product; and (3) it's the SPECS that are most important.  Only time will tell if the Ferraras will hold up . . . assuming they ever do get into service.
 
Bulldog said:
JohnnyBopp said:
2) The quality is in the spec, not the brand on the front.
Click to expand...
Not really, the spec determines how suitable for the application the equipment is.  The manufacturer determines the quality!  Look at automobiles for example, you can buy a Kia or a Mercedes that meet the same specifications but which one do you think will be better in the long run?
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Well....I don't know of any Kia that meets the same specs as a Mercedes.  So....bad comparison.  One is also much more expensive than the other, so that doesn't help.  Yet, at the end of all that, the question is, "which will be better in the long run?".  I'm going to have to say that the Kia will be be better in the long run.

I was a volly for many years before getting on this job.  I've been in and worked on rigs with every name plate on the front.  I've seen some beautiful Pierce's and some that sucked.  Working this job has changed my view of apparatus completely.  The name on the front, or the number of flashing lights becomes meaningless.  It is a tool box that has to carry us and all our gear safely and in relative comfort.  So, we'll get these rigs, we'll work in them and hopefully be able to make them work for us.  After some reasonable time and use there'll be some judgement on how effective they are.

 
JohnnyBopp said:
Well....I don't know of any Kia that meets the same specs as a Mercedes.  So....bad comparison.
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Yeah you are right.  The specifications for the Kia Optima are actually better than the Mercedes C250!

Back to my original statement however, the specs determine how suitable for the application the equipment is.  The quality is determined by the manufacturer, there's no way to disagree with this.
 
Im not going to sit here and bash Ferrara. I have my own opinion of thier trucks. my career depertment City of Pittsburgh Has all rearmounts all being Pierce arrow and have been using Pierce Ladders since 1987 with the exception of 4 Ferrara rearmount ladders that were purchased in 2000. Now i know that New York City fire apparatus does alot of running and takes alot of abuse but my department does not come close to the call volume the the F.D.N.Y. does. But my company had one of those Ferrara ladders and as the other 3 were out of service more then they were in. They were junk and when they were replaced 2 years ago they were not ever good enough or reliable enough to be used as spares and since been removed off of the roster. Pierce seems to hold up well and my department is still using pierce Engines and Ladders that are 20 to 25 years old and still hold up just as good as they did then. I think that F.D.N.Y. will be sorry that it chose Ferrara in the long run.
 
Let's not forget that Seagrave has been the big name associated with the FDNY for the last 20 years.  What name comes to mind right off the bat when you think of an FDNY engine or truck company?  Chances are it's Seagrave.  As Ferrara is the FDNY's "New kid in town", it's probably not fair to judge their product so early in the game.  Who knows?  Perhaps Ferrara is serious about retaining the FDNY's business for the long haul, and maybe they'll go out of their way to show their sincereness through exceptional service and by customizing any "flaws" this first generation of aerials and rescues may have?

This is Ferrara's big test to either "Make it or break it" with the busiest fire department in the country.
 
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