FDNY Pumpers awarded to KME

ScottBerliner · Mar 11, 2015

Nasibova · Mar 11, 2015

Thanks.

ScottBerliner · Mar 19, 2015

Nasibova · Mar 20, 2015

Thanks

FDNYrigs · Mar 23, 2015

raybrag said:
Maybe:

1. Good Quality Control program?
2. Better workers?
3. Better worker training?
4. Better initial design?
5. All of the above?
6. None of the above?
7. Some of the above?

Probably also helped that they were loaned a FDNY Seagrave engine to de-construct and see how Seagrave did things.

Bulldog · Mar 23, 2015

FDNYrigs said:
raybrag said:

Maybe:

1. Good Quality Control program?
2. Better workers?
3. Better worker training?
4. Better initial design?
5. All of the above?
6. None of the above?
7. Some of the above?

Click to expand...

Probably also helped that they were loaned a FDNY Seagrave engine to de-construct and see how Seagrave did things.

That was definitely a big help to them I'm sure! I still think it was very ethical on the part of FDNY nor the part of KME to do that. While I realize the truck was owned by FDNY, not Seagrave, I just don't think giving it to somebody else to figure how it is built is very ethical!

firebuffkevin · Mar 24, 2015

Bulldog said:
FDNYrigs said:

raybrag said:

Maybe:

1. Good Quality Control program?
2. Better workers?
3. Better worker training?
4. Better initial design?
5. All of the above?
6. None of the above?
7. Some of the above?

Click to expand...

Probably also helped that they were loaned a FDNY Seagrave engine to de-construct and see how Seagrave did things.

Click to expand...

That was definitely a big help to them I'm sure! I still think it was very ethical on the part of FDNY nor the part of KME to do that. While I realize the truck was owned by FDNY, not Seagrave, I just don't think giving it to somebody else to figure how it is built is very ethical!

Couldn't Seagrave file a lawsuit? It seems to me that hat is just copying someone elses work.

mac8146 · Mar 24, 2015

The specs to the rig are property of FDNY and I think Seagrave cannot sue as they are not owners of specs. Same as seagrave trying to sue fererra about rear mounts. The reason we still use seagrave for the TL's is they own baker which became aerialscope and they own the specs for the tower ladder and I don't think they outsource. You can have TL's mounted on other chassis but usually refurbs not new. As for the KME pumpers the rigs are pretty solid and so far sturdy, pretty bad winter and most have remained in service, small issues repaired in quarters or warranty items done in quarters, they ride firm and are well put together, time will tell.

Bulldog · Mar 25, 2015

mac8146 said:
The specs to the rig are property of FDNY and I think Seagrave cannot sue as they are not owners of specs.

The specifications for the engines is one thing and obviously it is the property of FDNY. However such things as assembly techniques, bolting patterns, mounting techniques, design of frame rails, design of the actual body panels, etc. are proprietary to Seagrave and not part of the actual FDNY specifications. Though the type of things that I'm sure KME benefited from greatly by seeing the Seagrave engines.

BCR · Mar 25, 2015

You don't think ford takes apart new chevys ?? And vise versa

JohnnyBopp · Mar 25, 2015

Bulldog said:
mac8146 said:

The specs to the rig are property of FDNY and I think Seagrave cannot sue as they are not owners of specs.

Click to expand...

The specifications for the engines is one thing and obviously it is the property of FDNY. However such things as assembly techniques, bolting patterns, mounting techniques, design of frame rails, design of the actual body panels, etc. are proprietary to Seagrave and not part of the actual FDNY specifications. Though the type of things that I'm sure KME benefited from greatly by seeing the Seagrave engines.

In this case, the specs are far more specific than most. Everything from the thickness of the rolled steel in the cab to the bolt pattern for the headlights is proprietary. They own it all.

NYBravest82 · Mar 25, 2015

Add to the fact its a piece of machinery that is designed to save lives. I'd want to make sure even the paint was safe on it, so if i'm a buyer, i'd do whatever it took to make sure it was the best built piece of machinery I could get for money, if that means showing where others did wrong, right, or just different, i'd do it and learn off it.

Bulldog · Mar 25, 2015

BCR said:
You don't think ford takes apart new chevys ?? And vise versa

I definitely know that Ford takes apart Chevys and vice versa but in that case Ford buys the Chevys, they are not given them by customers! That's basically my problem with this scenario that took place with KME and FDNY with the Seagrave trucks. I'm not saying it was unethical for KME to look over a Seagrave truck before building there is for FDNY, it was just wrong for FDNY to give a Seagrave truck to KME!!

raybrag · Mar 25, 2015

If you buy a Ford, Chevy, Rolls Royce or Yugo, you own it (after you have paid it off, of course) and it is yours to do with as you please. If you are rolling in dough and choose to give your Rolls Royce to the Yugo people so they can build a new one for you, it is your right to do so. FDNY was well within their rights to send a Seagrave to KME. The only question would have been if they had done so before the bids went out . . . then you'd have a situation of possibly giving an unfair advantage to KME in the bid process.

auxlteng225 · Mar 25, 2015

thanks Raybrag, so far the most logical explanation of why this was okay. Makes good sense to me.

68jk09 · Mar 26, 2015

These (Rig's) are important pieces of the Firefighting arsenal ......whatever it takes to prevent some of the past problems .....so be it.

southphillyff · Mar 27, 2015

Dont give KME any credit for producing a good apparatus

JohnnyBopp · Mar 29, 2015

sptruckie said:
Dont give KME any credit for producing a good apparatus

...and why no? I've driven, pumped and worked in every style engine that we have in front line service. My experience with the KME has been excellent. There are issues here an there, bot nothing over the top. KME has been very proactive about fixing issues and preventetive repairs.

I"ll give them credit, thus far.

FDNY793727 · Mar 29, 2015

JohnnyBopp said:
sptruckie said:

Dont give KME any credit for producing a good apparatus

Click to expand...

...and why no? I've driven, pumped and worked in every style engine that we have in front line service. My experience with the KME has been excellent. There are issues here an there, bot nothing over the top. KME has been very proactive about fixing issues and preventetive repairs.

I"ll give them credit, thus far.

Based on his other posts, I don't think that's what he meant by it. Not picking sides, just trying to clarify.

John488 · Mar 30, 2015

Nasibova said:
Yes, l agree. l`ve read his other posts too... l think he`s just saying in this case " lt`s sort of like KME is building Seagraves for FDNY". l`m not saying that, but l think that is what he means.

It sounds like to me KME is building an fdny specced rig for the fdny...