LI FD Volunteers rapidly diminishing.

What a shame. I think the economy factors in, but I also think the "new breed" doesn't want to put in the time to train, take time to respond to calls and just get dirty. There are even some paid departments that have trouble recruiting and retaining members. The call to service is, sadly, diminishing.
 
Same here in parts of VA. Several counties that were all volunteers are now either combination volunteer/career or all career.
 
Didn’t basically every career dept start as a volunteer dept that transitioned to career when they became busier and busier? I used to be a volly but I have always kind of questioned why it is so accepted in society. No other profession has places that rely solely on volunteers. There isn’t volunteer Police or doctors or transit drivers.
 
lfdlt31 said:
Didn’t basically every career dept start as a volunteer dept that transitioned to career when they became busier and busier? I used to be a volly but I have always kind of questioned why it is so accepted in society. No other profession has places that rely solely on volunteers. There isn’t volunteer Police or doctors or transit drivers.
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Prior to volunteers, every household in the settlement had to have a bucket and every able-bodied person had to participate in the bucket line, enforceable by fine.
 
I would say a lot of societal change for one automatic fire alarms, ems, co detectors all are added runs. Volunteer departments were never made for 2 3 or 4 thousand runs a year. People have changed to people now don’t work in town for the most part and very few can survive on a one job existence. Dad works 2 jobs mom works 1 job everyone time strapped and the word “community” no longer really exists.

Bottom line it was fun while it lasted however much like the dinosaur it will eventually go extinct. Sad but true JMHO
 
I would say a lot of societal change for one automatic fire alarms, ems, co detectors all are added runs.
agreed
So who is getting out of bed at 0300 for one of those calls when you have to get up in 3 hours and get the kids ready for school and then drive an hour to work. Let the Chief who wanted that fancy take-home Fire SUV handle it.
 
Capttomo said:
I would say a lot of societal change for one automatic fire alarms, ems, co detectors all are added runs.
agreed
So who is getting out of bed at 0300 for one of those calls when you have to get up in 3 hours and get the kids ready for school and then drive an hour to work. Let the Chief who wanted that fancy take-home Fire SUV handle it.
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I would say no one is that’s the basis of the article. You are 100% right Cap
 
Capttomo said:
I would say a lot of societal change for one automatic fire alarms, ems, co detectors all are added runs.
agreed
So who is getting out of bed at 0300 for one of those calls when you have to get up in 3 hours and get the kids ready for school and then drive an hour to work. Let the Chief who wanted that fancy take-home Fire SUV handle it.
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I guess the Chiefs are the cause of the problems in volunteer companies as well as they are in the FDNY.
 
t123ken said:
I guess the Chiefs are the cause of the problems in volunteer companies as well as they are in the FDNY.
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I used to be the training director for a county fire training center in PA, and recruitment/retention was a total train wreck.
One of the main issues was below par "leadership" and just zero organization. I tried to throw some management courses at the problem to fix the situation, and local volly chiefs almost took my head off for it. That was 20 years ago, and guess what? They’re still dealing with the exact same mess today.
 
Too many calls overwork volunteers and they start picking and choosing just because they are limited with time. One idea is to hire a career staff to handle the day-to-day calls. The only problem with that is lack of repetition for the volunteers. If it’s a veteran volunteer who has years of experience it’s fine, but if someone goes through basic training and then goes to 5 or 6 “big” calls a year, within a few years they are very rusty. Donning an air pack, properly stretching the line, forcing a door and using a TIC ends up being a real struggle. Continuous training helps, but it can’t replicate that day-to-day exposure.
 
Sadly the two main issues regardless of location and run volume are ignorance and ego! I thought time would make it better but it hasn’t.
 
Once you start down the road with a paid component of a combination department be cognizant of the consequences. Some combination departments have worked well for decades. Some are not working well. Look at what is happening in Norwich Ct for example. The addition of career staff can often accelerate declining volunteer recruitment, retention and interest. “Let the paid guys take that run”. “ the paid guys are always first due and we never get anytime on the nozzle”. “ all they use is for now is to pack hose”. Don’t get me wrong. There are many places that should be transitioning to a paid department but are still clinging to the past to the detriment of the citizens they serve. The transition to paid firefighters will be increasing exponentially in many areas of the country over the next decade. The volunteer fire service is a microcosm of our society. So many don’t want to do anything for free, or get there hands dirty. Leadership and management is poor. And as stated by others in this thread, the cost of living, affordability of homes in many places, and commute times bring many to the realization that they must prioritize their time to provide for their families. Volunteer firefighters are often working in areas where cops and teachers are retiring on 150k to 200k+ pensions. When you can barely make ends meet, you wind up walking away from volunteering. Many of these places transitioned to paid EMS from volunteer ambulance corps years ago. Now it’s the fire service turn.
 
Because many towns in suburban areas can’t afford a large full-time staff, perhaps there will be more county run fire departments popping up. So instead of 12 town fire departments with 12 chiefs and mixed staffing (a few career, a few volunteers, etc) there will be 1 county fire department with 1 chief with career staffed pieces and a more standardized set of procedures. When a fire comes in, you’d get 3 engines and 1 ladder from the closest stations. Any interested volunteers would be more or less support personnel.
 
Extra One & One said:
Because many towns in suburban areas can’t afford a large full-time staff, perhaps there will be more county run fire departments popping up. So instead of 12 town fire departments with 12 chiefs and mixed staffing (a few career, a few volunteers, etc) there will be 1 county fire department with 1 chief with career staffed pieces and a more standardized set of procedures. When a fire comes in, you’d get 3 engines and 1 ladder from the closest stations. Any interested volunteers would be more or less support personnel.
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One and one - your post above has so much merit, makes so much sense and is a very efficient model . Unfortunately, throughout the country there remains too much turf guarding and power struggles. This includes EMS provision, Police Departments, and PAID fire departments. City and town mayors and councils don’t want to give up control. Fire chiefs and fire companies don’t want to give up control or change with the times (e.g Yanticin CT. The result is all too often duplication of services, costly saturation of apparatus that is poorly staffed and taxpayers overpaying for basic services. Regionalization often is the answer for efficiency, and financial benefits. We are beginning to see an increase in the merging of fire companies throughout the country but it is painfully slow as staffing continues to dwindle. In South Florida, the opposite is actually happening. In the last 3 years, Highland Beach uncoupled from a decades old merger with Delray Beach to create its own dept, Coconut Creek did the same and uncoupled from the City of Margate to form a three Station 100+ new department with better staffing , Jupiter Fl is breaking away from Palm Beach County Fire this coming Oct 1 to create a 3 Station 100+ new department, and Deerfield Beach Fl has begun the process of discontinuing its contract for services from Broward County Fire Rescue and establish its own 6 station 185+ member department with 18-24 months.
 
Capttomo said:
One and one - your post above has so much merit, makes so much sense and is a very efficient model . Unfortunately, throughout the country there remains too much turf guarding and power struggles. This includes EMS provision, Police Departments, and PAID fire departments. City and town mayors and councils don’t want to give up control. Fire chiefs and fire companies don’t want to give up control or change with the times (e.g Yanticin CT. The result is all too often duplication of services, costly saturation of apparatus that is poorly staffed and taxpayers overpaying for basic services. Regionalization often is the answer for efficiency, and financial benefits. We are beginning to see an increase in the merging of fire companies throughout the country but it is painfully slow as staffing continues to dwindle. In South Florida, the opposite is actually happening. In the last 3 years, Highland Beach uncoupled from a decades old merger with Delray Beach to create its own dept, Coconut Creek did the same and uncoupled from the City of Margate to form a three Station 100+ new department with better staffing , Jupiter Fl is breaking away from Palm Beach County Fire this coming Oct 1 to create a 3 Station 100+ new department, and Deerfield Beach Fl has begun the process of discontinuing its contract for services from Broward County Fire Rescue and establish its own 6 station 185+ member department with 18-24 months.
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I'd imagine that in So Fla where municipalities are breaking off that it is causing the larger original department to have to reduce staffing. Are the smaller newly formed municipalities absorbing staff that already in place?
 
Extra One & One said:
Because many towns in suburban areas can’t afford a large full-time staff, perhaps there will be more county run fire departments popping up. So instead of 12 town fire departments with 12 chiefs and mixed staffing (a few career, a few volunteers, etc) there will be 1 county fire department with 1 chief with career staffed pieces and a more standardized set of procedures. When a fire comes in, you’d get 3 engines and 1 ladder from the closest stations. Any interested volunteers would be more or less support personnel.
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I agree, good concept...Going back to my original post, working with county officials in PA to support vol fire companies, I suggested a couple of daytime paid crews, strategically placed so that they could get an engine on the road in minutes and support the local volly fire company as a "squad" concept...you would have thought I had three eyeballs...Only broken systems get fixed; waffling ones are tolerated....And by the way, I've seen and been a part of Vol/Career fire department combos, with an exception of a tiny few, it's like mixing oil and water, no bueno.
 
kidfrmqns said:
I'd imagine that in So Fla where municipalities are breaking off that it is causing the larger original department to have to reduce staffing. Are the smaller newly formed municipalities absorbing staff that already in place?
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In the case of Coconut Creek they did absorb most of the displaced positions. Highland Beach hired all new personnel. Almost no one will want to leave Palm Beach County FD to go to Jupiter. Reason is bigger department with more opportunities. However Palm Beach County refused to sell the fire stations in Jupiter to the city of Jupiter. Jupiter had to build brand new fire stations. Palm Beach County is continuing to Staff the three stations in Jupiter at full staffing under the premise of regional service to adjacent areas served by PBCFR. There is actually a PBCFR AND JUPITER fire station right across the street from each other both fully staffed. Jupiter city residents are paying for their own fire services and not paying for PBCFR STATIONS. As a result, taxpayers in the Remaining PBCFR taxing district (MSTU) will undoubtedly have to pay more and pick up the costs of operating these fire stations within a city that provides its own fire services and pays nothing to PBCFR. In fact PBCFR is currently seeking to get the Florida legislature to pass a local bill that would guarantee that any future cities that want to decouple from PBCFR would have to pay for both there own new FD and the existing PBCFR stations in that area that was annexed or reverted back to a municipal FD.
 
Capttomo said:
One and one - your post above has so much merit, makes so much sense and is a very efficient model . Unfortunately, throughout the country there remains too much turf guarding and power struggles. This includes EMS provision, Police Departments, and PAID fire departments. City and town mayors and councils don’t want to give up control. Fire chiefs and fire companies don’t want to give up control or change with the times (e.g Yanticin CT. The result is all too often duplication of services, costly saturation of apparatus that is poorly staffed and taxpayers overpaying for basic services. Regionalization often is the answer for efficiency, and financial benefits. We are beginning to see an increase in the merging of fire companies throughout the country but it is painfully slow as staffing continues to dwindle. In South Florida, the opposite is actually happening. In the last 3 years, Highland Beach uncoupled from a decades old merger with Delray Beach to create its own dept, Coconut Creek did the same and uncoupled from the City of Margate to form a three Station 100+ new department with better staffing , Jupiter Fl is breaking away from Palm Beach County Fire this coming Oct 1 to create a 3 Station 100+ new department, and Deerfield Beach Fl has begun the process of discontinuing its contract for services from Broward County Fire Rescue and establish its own 6 station 185+ member department with 18-24 months.
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I hear what you’re saying for sure!

This is going to be a TLDR post and I’m going down the rabbit hole, but here goes. As small communities served by volunteers grow bigger and bigger, the fire departments struggle more and more to turn out adequate staffing to many calls. Town fathers start questioning things. Turf battles occur. Finally, after a horrific fire, the choice is made to supplement the volunteers. Turf battles still occur and grumblings are heard. Other surrounding towns start experiencing similar problems. They, too, hire career staff to supplement the volunteers. Soon there are ten towns in a county (think suburbs around a city) that all have a mix of career and volunteer staff. Much duplication occurs and there are still turf battles. Then someone gets an idea… “let’s create a county fire department!”. So a county fire department is created under one fire chief with more streamlined operations and coordination. But that’s not the end of the story. As some of these towns grow bigger and bigger and, in essence, become their own cities, they realize they can create their own fire department (perhaps that’s what’s happening in South Florida). Maybe 7 of the original 10 towns end up with their own fire department and the other 7 towns stay with the county fire department. Summing up, the only thing that will eventually break any system is total inefficiency, as in, there were 3 major fires in town last year and each time our volunteer fire department turned out with 6 guys! I’d bet most residents would demand change before the whole town burned down. Of course you’ll always have few a diehards who will fight it to the end!

But within our lifetimes, there will still be small town, rural America where hiring full-time firefighters is just not financially feasible because of the minimal tax base. To handle their 200 calls a year, those small towns, villages, and hamlets will still depend on volunteers.
 
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