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mmattyphoto
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Help me on this one. When Sq1 came to the Bronx they rotated between E46 and E45 during the Adaptive responce hours. Then after Midnight they would respond to all 10-75's.
My younger Buff years
- Thread starter nfd2004
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Yeah, Matty, that's it. When 88-2 became E72 they still needed another engine in the area. SQ1 would rotate thru 45, 46 and 88. They ate in a different kitchen every night. (I have heard tell they favored the Italian style on Belmont Ave.) Home to 176th Street at midnight. Only ran to workers after that. I don't know about the day tours though. Anybody know that one?
Talking about Chiefs, I remember responding second due with Engine 248 to a fire at "The Junction" in Brooklyn in the mid 60s.
It was a Saturday night, around 9:30, and we had just finished dinner. There is a triangular shaped block bounded by Flatbush Avenue, Nostrand Avenue, and Avenue H; I believe the box used that night was 3066. We arrived on the Nostrand Avenue side and Engine 255 had a line stretched and operating into a barber shop on the first floor of a two story taxpayer. The second floor contained a pool parlor that covered six stores on the first floor. We took the second line to the second floor and operated with Ladder 147, second due truck. The truck was called out to work on the ground floor. What we did not know was the fact the fire had extended horizontally to the stores on both sides of the barber shop. We would knock down fire as it appeared. At one point, our Lieutenant sensed something and said: Drop the line, everybody to the staircase." As the last man got to the stairs, the floor collapsed into the first floor, due to the heavy fire condition down below and the weight of the pool tables. We pulled and pulled on the line and ultimately found the line burned off, minus our nozzle. After that, it became a "surround and drown." Somehow the Deputy Chief of the 12th Division sensed that the Boro Chief was near by, eagerly awaiting transmission of the third alarm so he could respond in. The deputy just kept special calling engines and trucks one at a time, to keep the Boro Chief away. We were relieved by the day crew at 9AM the following morning and we were still throwing water into that building.
It was a Saturday night, around 9:30, and we had just finished dinner. There is a triangular shaped block bounded by Flatbush Avenue, Nostrand Avenue, and Avenue H; I believe the box used that night was 3066. We arrived on the Nostrand Avenue side and Engine 255 had a line stretched and operating into a barber shop on the first floor of a two story taxpayer. The second floor contained a pool parlor that covered six stores on the first floor. We took the second line to the second floor and operated with Ladder 147, second due truck. The truck was called out to work on the ground floor. What we did not know was the fact the fire had extended horizontally to the stores on both sides of the barber shop. We would knock down fire as it appeared. At one point, our Lieutenant sensed something and said: Drop the line, everybody to the staircase." As the last man got to the stairs, the floor collapsed into the first floor, due to the heavy fire condition down below and the weight of the pool tables. We pulled and pulled on the line and ultimately found the line burned off, minus our nozzle. After that, it became a "surround and drown." Somehow the Deputy Chief of the 12th Division sensed that the Boro Chief was near by, eagerly awaiting transmission of the third alarm so he could respond in. The deputy just kept special calling engines and trucks one at a time, to keep the Boro Chief away. We were relieved by the day crew at 9AM the following morning and we were still throwing water into that building.
Johnd248 - That was quite an experience you had. It did seem that many chiefs were more cautious about transmitting multiple alarms. No one wanted to be second-guessed about transmitting a second and the fire going under control without putting the units to work. Resources were scarce. Many chiefs would request extra engine/extra truck/extra engine etc. There seemed to be less 'second alarm on arrivals' transmitted except for the fully involved vacant building jobs. Most units used the "10-30" when they arrived at a working fire. I think that was a period of time (the 70's) that people were moving through the ranks very rapidly because new units (e.g. - TCUs), new battalions (27,55,56,60) and a new division (17). Chiefs often did not have many years of experience before they painted their helmets white. They did not have the leadership classes which are available today to prepare for responsibilities. They learned by fighting fires. There was no safety chief. No rescue BC. No assigned staging area or aeriel recon chief. I do remember that there was a BC assigned as a "communications coordinator" on the 3rd alarm (I think) and they worked with one of the two field comm units which operated in the 70's. Field Comm 1 was in midtown (E23?) and usually covered Manhattan and the Bronx. Field Comm 2 was at E 259 and responded to Queens, Brooklyn and maybe SI. The field comms responded on "all hands-doubtful" fires.
One other thing that I remember about jobs back then was the lack of specific information that chiefs and first arriving units often had when they arrived at fire scenes compared to today. Who was coming in and who was in charge. Units were interchanged, relocated more often, adaptive response changed availability and respondig units, TCUs operated during specific hours, and many units normally assigned on a box were busy operating somwewhere else due to high fire volume. There were many covering chiefs and acting chiefs on any given tour because of turnover. Frequently, battalion chiefs arrived at the scene first and did not know who would be the 1st or 2nd due units coming in. Chiefs and aides would be calling for the "1st due engine" instead of "engine 248" on their "handie talkies". Spare rigs were not marked well. No tickets/no print-outs for the box.
One other thing that I remember about jobs back then was the lack of specific information that chiefs and first arriving units often had when they arrived at fire scenes compared to today. Who was coming in and who was in charge. Units were interchanged, relocated more often, adaptive response changed availability and respondig units, TCUs operated during specific hours, and many units normally assigned on a box were busy operating somwewhere else due to high fire volume. There were many covering chiefs and acting chiefs on any given tour because of turnover. Frequently, battalion chiefs arrived at the scene first and did not know who would be the 1st or 2nd due units coming in. Chiefs and aides would be calling for the "1st due engine" instead of "engine 248" on their "handie talkies". Spare rigs were not marked well. No tickets/no print-outs for the box.
Mack, once again you have added a wealth of information to "My Younger Buff Years". Yes, the two Field Comm Units, reluctant to go to multiple alarms, and no idea on what units were coming in is the way it was.
A couple of things that were mentioned on other threads. I think "Bklyndisp54" mentioned about "Buff Mobiles". Yes, I certainly remember the term. I had a buff mobile, but it wasn"t like a NYC Police Car. It was usually a car that was good on gas. Nothing new or fancy. It just wasn"t the place to drive around with a new nice shiny car. Or you could come back to your car after checking out a job, and find everything gone, (tires, seats, valuables etc), except the shell. And I hate to say it, but sometimes the Buffs would even have a siren and flashing light to take in the job. Of course that was Completely Illegal and some of the guys gave the Buffs a Bad Name.
Somebody else mentioned on another thread about walking into a firehouse and wanting to buy a T-Shirt. He ended up taking in a call with them. I can remember often stopping by a firehouse, especially if the apparatus doors were open and a few guys were out there. Next thing I knew, I was riding the rig on a few calls. In fact, I"d have buddies in my "buff mobile" and they would ask if we could stop and maybe they will let us ride. I sometimes tried to discourage that because if we were at one firehouse, we could miss a job somewhere else. Pretty much if you were decent, the guys were glad to meet you. I stopped one time at a busy Bronx firehouse and a so-called buff buddy of mine decided to say how busy "he" was in "his" dept. The guys pointed to the Burned out block across the street from the firehouse and asked him if he has that across the street from "his" firehouse. Then the apparatus doors closed.
A couple of things that were mentioned on other threads. I think "Bklyndisp54" mentioned about "Buff Mobiles". Yes, I certainly remember the term. I had a buff mobile, but it wasn"t like a NYC Police Car. It was usually a car that was good on gas. Nothing new or fancy. It just wasn"t the place to drive around with a new nice shiny car. Or you could come back to your car after checking out a job, and find everything gone, (tires, seats, valuables etc), except the shell. And I hate to say it, but sometimes the Buffs would even have a siren and flashing light to take in the job. Of course that was Completely Illegal and some of the guys gave the Buffs a Bad Name.
Somebody else mentioned on another thread about walking into a firehouse and wanting to buy a T-Shirt. He ended up taking in a call with them. I can remember often stopping by a firehouse, especially if the apparatus doors were open and a few guys were out there. Next thing I knew, I was riding the rig on a few calls. In fact, I"d have buddies in my "buff mobile" and they would ask if we could stop and maybe they will let us ride. I sometimes tried to discourage that because if we were at one firehouse, we could miss a job somewhere else. Pretty much if you were decent, the guys were glad to meet you. I stopped one time at a busy Bronx firehouse and a so-called buff buddy of mine decided to say how busy "he" was in "his" dept. The guys pointed to the Burned out block across the street from the firehouse and asked him if he has that across the street from "his" firehouse. Then the apparatus doors closed.
A lot of what Mack states is right on the money. One exception I would have though was the rapid rise to chief during that time. When the city went into its fiscal crisis, 74 I believe, this put a hold on many promotions. I was #22 on a 200 name Battalion Chief list. I was not promoted for many months, where if in different times I would have been. I still remember the day when the UFOA President, Billy Hunter, called me at 82 engine and told me that I was going to be demoted back to Lt. the following week, with 20 or so other Captains in a "cost saving fix." Never happened. I was promoted 5/76. One major factor during those days with fire extinguishment was the experience factor. I believe that the "art" of firefighting is 90% experience, 10% books and drills. Yeah companies were out of sequence etc. but almost without exception any engine or truck you had there or coming there was highly experienced. My wife was always after me to transfer out of the Bx when I was a Lt. there and then Captain. I always said to her that I was probably safer there with the experience level than anywhere else in the city. Busy days and busy nights, but amazingly every morning as I was driving home all the fires were out, unless one had just started. The war years were the best of times, the worst of times, to steal a line.
Yet another blast from the past: Often, when a regular chief's aide in the 41 Battalion was out/off, the chief would yank a firefighter from Engine 248 as his temporary aide. One day we had a snotting fire in the rear of a shoe store on Flatbush Avenue near Snyder Avenue. The temporary aide from the engine entered the store, after giving the preliminary for an all hands, and found the chief. The chief said: "Bring a second line" and the aide heard: "Bring in a second alarm." The aide went out to the car radio and requested a second alarm. He then re-entered the store and advised the chief the second alarm was on the way. Needless to say that firefighter was not used as a temporary aide after that, but he was promoted to Lieutentant several years later.
Another night, I was riding with Batt. 41 and we responded to a four alarm fire at Kings Highway and Coney Island Avenue, possibly as the third alarm chief. The fire was in a row of taxpayers and had started in Field Brothers clothing store. I was somewhat surprised when my chief said he wanted to check out the roof, went to a portable ladder, and asked me to butt it so he could ascend to the roof. No sooner did he step onto the roof, someone else tapped me on the shoulder and said: Hold the ladder for me too, son." I turned to look and see who it was: Chief of the Department John T. O'Hagan. I made sure I held onto that ladder.
Another night, I was riding with Batt. 41 and we responded to a four alarm fire at Kings Highway and Coney Island Avenue, possibly as the third alarm chief. The fire was in a row of taxpayers and had started in Field Brothers clothing store. I was somewhat surprised when my chief said he wanted to check out the roof, went to a portable ladder, and asked me to butt it so he could ascend to the roof. No sooner did he step onto the roof, someone else tapped me on the shoulder and said: Hold the ladder for me too, son." I turned to look and see who it was: Chief of the Department John T. O'Hagan. I made sure I held onto that ladder.
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johnd248 said:
I wonder if the Chief would go up the ladder today. Or at least use a tower?
Most memorable run - I had heard many tales from the time I was a little kid visiting my dad in his Brooklyn firehouse. As I got older, I thought I was pretty tough from my military experience and from several years of responding with different units. The call I will always remember the most was one I would never have expected. We were responding to a fire somewhere in Gravesend. I think we were on Shell Rd, late at night. We were surprised that someone walking a dog waved us down in the middle of the street and asked for help. Who is out at 2AM anyway? The chief promised he would request assistance for what seemed to be a minor car accident on the other side of the street, in the dark under the subway line. When we returned from the fire about an hour or two later, the street was lit up like Yankee Stadium. Cops all over the place, crime lab, vans, federal agents. We pulled over and a detective from the 60th Pct. (next door to the firehouse) said "you guys gotta see this". We walked around some barriers and police lines and saw the car, a big Caddy or Lincoln, and what was left of the driver splattered all over the front seat and windshield. It was a "wise guy" hit and the cops were matter-of-factly telling us the guys name, nick name, alias names, priors, family, girl friends, etc. It was a scene from the Godfather. The thing I remember the most was that the detectives, who we knew, were handed their meal - meatball heroes (subs), and had red sauce dripping from their chins as they routinely pointed out details around the vehicle. This was no big deal. Just another night. When we got back to W 8th St, everyone just went to bed. One more run that night. No one even mentioned the shooting the next morning. But one of the guys did mention that he wondered where the cops got their subs because they smelled good.
Thanks "Mack". Just another day in the streets of Brooklyn. Now let me take you up to the Bronx. Nothing like your story but just how everything was then.
I was parked at one of my favorite spots sometime in the 1980s. It was near Clairmont Park under a tree because it was hot that day. I was with another firefighter that was on the job with me. We were both also EMTs. My buddy looks across the street and some guy is having a seizure. We ran over to help him when a NYPD car came riding by and stopped. As we are struggling to try and help this guy, very casually the officer rolls down the car window, and says: "What's going on here"? We told him "we were FF/EMTs and the guys having a seizure, would you call an ambulance". He got on the radio and he told us "its an hour for the next Bus (ambulance), just THROW him in the back and we'LL take him up". So with that, he opened the back door, we put the guy in, and off they went. Neither officer ever even got out of the car. It was nothing like back in Connecticut, no vital signs, no O2, no paramedic. It was just the way it was then.
Another incident similar occurred when an elderly lady apparently slipped on the ice. It was really cold. I think she might have broken her leg or hip. Only one person stopped to help her. Somebody had called for an ambulance and was I told, it will be at least an hour. All we could do is try to keep her warm while we waited.
In those days, the Emergency services were just stretched beyond the breaking point. No F.D. response to EMS calls because there was just too many fires going on. And the Police and EMS were just overwhelmed. And as "Mack" points out, most people didn"t become concerned whether it was a murder or an old lady in the cold waiting for an ambulance. Or even a fully involved building on their street.
I was parked at one of my favorite spots sometime in the 1980s. It was near Clairmont Park under a tree because it was hot that day. I was with another firefighter that was on the job with me. We were both also EMTs. My buddy looks across the street and some guy is having a seizure. We ran over to help him when a NYPD car came riding by and stopped. As we are struggling to try and help this guy, very casually the officer rolls down the car window, and says: "What's going on here"? We told him "we were FF/EMTs and the guys having a seizure, would you call an ambulance". He got on the radio and he told us "its an hour for the next Bus (ambulance), just THROW him in the back and we'LL take him up". So with that, he opened the back door, we put the guy in, and off they went. Neither officer ever even got out of the car. It was nothing like back in Connecticut, no vital signs, no O2, no paramedic. It was just the way it was then.
Another incident similar occurred when an elderly lady apparently slipped on the ice. It was really cold. I think she might have broken her leg or hip. Only one person stopped to help her. Somebody had called for an ambulance and was I told, it will be at least an hour. All we could do is try to keep her warm while we waited.
In those days, the Emergency services were just stretched beyond the breaking point. No F.D. response to EMS calls because there was just too many fires going on. And the Police and EMS were just overwhelmed. And as "Mack" points out, most people didn"t become concerned whether it was a murder or an old lady in the cold waiting for an ambulance. Or even a fully involved building on their street.
nfd2004 said:
Although FDNY didn't respond to 911 calls that requested medical assistance back in the 60's through the early 90's, it was very common for civilians to pull the street box, bang on the firehouse door or to dial the FD Central Office on the 7 digit emergency line to request assistance for cardiacs, shootings/ stabbings, auto accidents, etc. It was commonplace to hear engine companies notifying the dispatcher that they were transporting a patient to the hospital due to no 'bus' being available. The patient would be placed into a 'stokes' which was put into the hose bed of the pumper. CPR and 1st aid would be administered by FF's while en-route to the hospital. During the mid to late 1970's about 2,000 FDNY Firemen became EMT's on their own time, at no cost to the city. Many lives were saved by FDNY in those years when EMS was brand new and barely functioning.
I remember responding to a verbal alarm across from quarters one night in 1982; we arrived and found a middle aged woman in cardiac arrest. We began CPR using the Battalion's resuscitator. EMS had no buses available in the borough so some of the members emptied out the back of the Chief's Suburban, placed the patient into a Stokes and two of us jumped in and did CPR during the transport to the closest ER.
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NYC firefighters are not EMT's. They are CFR's. Although, some have EMT training, on the job they must perform at the CFR (Certified first responder) level.
QUEENS1985 said:
If you are referring to my post, I was speaking of the 70's and 80's. In the 70's, FDNY probably had more EMT's than the old HHC EMS did ... EMS back then was still running buses with an M.V.O. (Motor Vehicle Operator) driving and an 'Ambulance Technician' (Trained in advanced first aid) providing some rudimentary level of patient care. Until FDNY began the CFR program, FDNY Firefighters who were certified NYS EMT's did perform EMT level care.
On page 11 of "My Younger Buff Years", we talked about one of the Worst areas for harassment to the firefighters of Engine 82 during those busy War Years. It was reported to be Box 2508 at Hoe and Aldus. Things would be thrown from the roof tops and the rig would have to back out. Thats really only a small street about six blocks long. Driving down the street you pass Hoe Ave, Longfellow, Bryant Ave, and Faile, and maybe one or two more. If you read the book, "Report from Engine Co 82", they were all mentioned in it.
Well as promised I checked it out. It sure seems to be different from what it was in those 1970s. No burned out buildings, no rubbish lining the street, no graffiti, no abandoned cars, and I even "Walked" the entire street one side and back up the other side with nothing thrown at me from the roof tops. It was over 90 degrees with high humidity and not even an opened hydrant. A much more cleaner, civilized street than what it was during those very tough years.
During that same day, I also got to meet "r1smokeater" for the first time. He has contributed a few videos, audios, and pictures to the "Younger Buff Years Stories" which I"m sure we are all grateful for. As it turns out, at one time, he lived on Faile St right around the corner from this Nasty Aldus St. I hope he didn"t take part in any of this stuff then. Only kidding "r1....". Actually he has almost 20 years on the job fighting fires in Yonkers, N.Y. Good Guy and into the job too !!!
Well as promised I checked it out. It sure seems to be different from what it was in those 1970s. No burned out buildings, no rubbish lining the street, no graffiti, no abandoned cars, and I even "Walked" the entire street one side and back up the other side with nothing thrown at me from the roof tops. It was over 90 degrees with high humidity and not even an opened hydrant. A much more cleaner, civilized street than what it was during those very tough years.
During that same day, I also got to meet "r1smokeater" for the first time. He has contributed a few videos, audios, and pictures to the "Younger Buff Years Stories" which I"m sure we are all grateful for. As it turns out, at one time, he lived on Faile St right around the corner from this Nasty Aldus St. I hope he didn"t take part in any of this stuff then. Only kidding "r1....". Actually he has almost 20 years on the job fighting fires in Yonkers, N.Y. Good Guy and into the job too !!!
Started reading all the stories lastnight from the war years you guys have been telling. Man what a time that must have been for you guys. I have read Report from Engine 82 and a book i got last year in NY called When the Bronx burned about Engine 85 and Ladder 59. If you have not read this book its a must BOX 2-7-4-3 Charlotte and 170th yeah the box you guys have been going on about. I would love to see the stats on how many fire calls were for that box alone.
I thankyou for the stories re the war years and Bill i read you will be moving onto the 80's I dont think you could ever beat the 70's
Stevie
I thankyou for the stories re the war years and Bill i read you will be moving onto the 80's I dont think you could ever beat the 70's
Stevie
Stevie, you are "CORRECT". Nothing will come close to anything like the 1970s. In some of these stories, myself and a few others try to convey what it was like during that time frame with our own stories, some videos, and some pictures. I'd say that it has all worked out pretty well, for anybody who wants to read what it was like.
You mentioned about a few books. Another book, that actually got me writing on this subject was called "The Usual". Also written by John Finucane, retired FDNY Eng 85 Lt.
Also, for your enjoyment, and along the same time frame are several other stories written about this time frame. Check in "History" of this site. I think you"ll find stories on "War Years Trivia", "Squad Companies", "Those Busy Fourth of July's", and maybe a few others. For me, this Web Site has become a Library of FDNY information, whether History, or Current Events. We should all be very "Thankful" to "tbendick" who runs and pays for this site, through his ads.
You mentioned how I stated I would be writing about the 1980s. They were busy times too. But now I am starting to realize, "How do I follow an act like The War Years of the 1970s".
You mentioned about a few books. Another book, that actually got me writing on this subject was called "The Usual". Also written by John Finucane, retired FDNY Eng 85 Lt.
Also, for your enjoyment, and along the same time frame are several other stories written about this time frame. Check in "History" of this site. I think you"ll find stories on "War Years Trivia", "Squad Companies", "Those Busy Fourth of July's", and maybe a few others. For me, this Web Site has become a Library of FDNY information, whether History, or Current Events. We should all be very "Thankful" to "tbendick" who runs and pays for this site, through his ads.
You mentioned how I stated I would be writing about the 1980s. They were busy times too. But now I am starting to realize, "How do I follow an act like The War Years of the 1970s".
Charlotte Street was the "play ground" for Gasoline Gomez. He would hit every 8 to 10 days, always a night tour. We would get a small fire around 1900 hours at the start of the tour. This fire was always in a vacant or partially vacant building, 1st floor, rear vacant apartment. Then around 2300 we would get a similar fire either same building or close by. Then around 0300 he would have 3 or 4 floors going in one of the previous buildings. One night after his second fire I can still remember the Battalion Chief Powell (RIP)pleading with an elderly Irish couple to leave the building as they would most likely have a fire that night and we may not be able to save them. They lived on the top floor of the entirely vacant building except for them. How they lived there I don't know, but they did. They would not leave because they had 7 or 8 dogs and no one would give them a place to live with the animals. I don't know how Powell did it but he got the Salvation Army to relocate the couple with their dogs. That night around 0300 we had 4 floors going in the building on arrival, we would not have been able to save the couple. We knew Gomez always used at least 5 gallons of gasoline with his 0300 fires. Gomez finally blew himself out a window at one of his fires. He barely survived, was arrested but beat it in court by saying he only went into the building to light a cigarette. Never heard from him again after this, this was around fall of 1975.