FDNY Pumpers awarded to KME

Unfortunally this is the real story regarding KME and the FDNY pumper contract.........The FDNY committee has acknowledged that the KME contract is 7 to 8 months behind schedule........KME never had the pleasure of building any fire apparatus for the worlds greatest fire dept in the world........

The FDNY sent one Seagrave and one Ferrera to KME for them to get an idea of how and what is required for the FDNY.
KME has no grasp as to how or what even though they have the complete specs and two FDNY fire apparatus's that the FDNY uses in first line service.............

I believe KME will abort the contract once they come to there senses that they can not provide the FDNY with the type of apparatus that is required and needed..

Since the contract is 7 to 8 months behind at this point the FDNY will be lucky if the see the protostyle rig by the middle of 2014......Remember the front line units still have 2002, 2003, 2004 appartus in use......These rigs will not see replacement until the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015 if lucky from KME.

The only solution to this issue is that a add on contact should be made with Seagrave as soon as the FDNY can get the KME contract to disappear for good.........The add on should be for half of the contract that KME signed for...Otherwise 40 new pumpers should be the immediate add on........

Otherwise I am lost for words since I have never hear of a company that accepted a FDNY contact for any type of fire apparatus not being able to for fill there obligiations.......................
 
Last contract tossed out was the ambulances awarded to McCoy miller. They put a few on the road with nothing but problems, those were removed from service and contract canceled.
 
All this talk about brush rigs and sand units got me thinking......how about replacing rigs that really matter every day.  So, engines anyone?
 
I believe Seagrave was awarded an add on for 8 2000gpm pumpers to replace sandy damaged rigs, the KME thing is still up in the air and I dont think anyone really know's if this contract will ever be honored or cancelled.
 
mac8146 said:
I believe Seagrave was awarded an add on for 8 2000gpm pumpers to replace sandy damaged rigs, the KME thing is still up in the air and I dont think anyone really know's if this contract will ever be honored or cancelled.
Click to expand...
I read that the add-on was made for the 8 units but I thought they were high-pressure pumpers, not conventional ones.  Disregarding that fact some new pumpers need to be ordered and start arriving very soon, a lot of the ones on the streets are getting very beat up.
 
NYCT often has similar problems with builders of new transit buses. For example, California-based Gillig Corp. supplies transit buses to many small and mid-sized US transit agencies (including Suffolk Transit on the East End of L.I.), but they never landed a contract with MTA (despite several demos).
Not exactly sure why this is so, but I suspect big orders from large public-sector agencies can be a double-edged sword: big sales $ definitely come in with such deals, but warranty headaches and after-sales support can mean big $ also must be paid out.
In the fire apparatus world, Pierce might be a good example: they serve lots of vollies and small-to-mid-sized FD's, but not FDNY in any significant way.
To show how eccentric some big fleets can be, did you ever notice that UPS trucks carry no builder's nameplates anywhere (not sure if FedEx does the same thing)?  I had heard UPS specs them this way so as not to "endorse" any one truck builder; I suppose they don't consider purchase of a big fleet of the same rigs to be an "endorsement" :)
 
How soon will we know if KME lost it. It's hard to believe they would want to screw this up what could be something big for them but who knows. Bring mack back lol
 
mofire24 said:
How soon will we know if KME lost it. It's hard to believe they would want to screw this up what could be something big for them but who knows. Bring mack back lol
Click to expand...

  "Bring mack back". As far as I know, site member "mack" never left us. But "mofire24", if you're talking fire trucks, "mack was the best".
 
mofire24 said:
How soon will we know if KME lost it. It's hard to believe they would want to screw this up what could be something big for them but who knows. Bring mack back lol
Click to expand...

Spoke to a mechanic yesterday.  They're ironing out the fine details of the spec and should be building in the next couple months.  The Seagrave assigned to BOT has been sent to PA for KME to go over and gain some understanding of how we design our bodies.

Sounds like 10-12 months for delivery of the first batch.
 
Issue seems to be the split cab not the full tilt cab kme is used to make, they had to redesign there specs because FDNY wants the split cab (easy to work on in firehouse) than the full tilt which doesnt work in most firehouses. So again we shall see what they come up with.
 
nfd2004 I was refering to the Mack trucks lol    KME should have had it built already
 
I still don't see how it's ethical to send a competitor's product to someone else so they can figure out how to build what you want!  Seagrave figured it out on their own and KME should have to do the same thing!  They should have had it figured out prior to placing the bid.
 
they should have the contract yanked from them it is stupid if you cant read how it's speced and figure it out then you should not be in business. I can't see KME lasting long in FDNY
 
Bulldog said:
I still don't see how it's ethical to send a competitor's product to someone else so they can figure out how to build what you want!  Seagrave figured it out on their own and KME should have to do the same thing!  They should have had it figured out prior to placing the bid.
Click to expand...

You're looking for ethics in NYC politics and finance?  Gonna be a tough hunt :p

Seriously though, KME was the bid winner.  No apparatus builder is any better than the other so lets just nip that right there.  KME bid low and won, so that's that.  If I were having someone build me a boat-load of new vehicles, I'd definitely want to go over what'd been done in the past to help shape and improve the final product.  When Honda builds a new Accord, you don't think they check out the most recent Toyota Camry to see what the competition is doing?

Oh....and to a couple of other posters; lets drop the "bring back the Mack" thing.  Mack went out of business for a reason and if everyone was still allowed to build a truck that was as simple as that today, things would be different.  I've worked in old spare Macks......they're loud, hot, uncomfortable and have NO brakes.  They ARE fast as hell though and handle great.
 
"Bring mack back". As far as I know, site member "mack" never left us. But "mofire24", if you're talking fire trucks, "mack was the best".
[/quote]

Agreed Bill. The Mack Pumpers and Tower Ladders were the best. We ran them until the bodies were rotting off and then sold them at auction. Many are still around having been purchased by departments that had them refurbished. Much (not all) of what the NFPA has done to fire apparatus has caused more harm than good.

 
Boston and Chicago run KME, in fact BFD just put three 109' aerials. Anyone from FDNY talk to them? 8)
 
JohnnyBopp said:
Seriously though, KME was the bid winner.  No apparatus builder is any better than the other so lets just nip that right there.  KME bid low and won, so that's that. 
Click to expand...
Maybe it's not that!  If they can't meet the specifications and provide a quality product the contract will be pulled.  Your statement about no apparatus builder being better than any other just doesn't hold water.  If you've been in the fire service long enough you would certainly know that certain manufacturers apparatus hold up much better than that from other manufacturers.  As far as the old Macks go, everyone who worked on one of them knows they were the best ever manufactured.  Certainly that's partly because of the changes to the specifications for the new units but it's also because Mack realized that people's lives depended on the equipment they built so they built the best way possible.
If I were having someone build me a boat-load of new vehicles, I'd definitely want to go over what'd been done in the past to help shape and improve the final product.  When Honda builds a new Accord, you don't think they check out the most recent Toyota Camry to see what the competition is doing?
Click to expand...
That's a very good analogy but...  I would expect the person who's going to build these vehicles for me to thoroughly know the specifications and how to meet them before placing a bid.  I also think that they should obtain one of the competitors vehicles if they thought that was going to help them build a better product.  Customers shouldn't have to low bidder meet the specifications and build a quality product.  When Honda builds a new Accord I'm sure they check out the most recent Camry but Toyota doesn't give it to them nor does a consumer or future purchaser, they go out and buy the Camry themselves!  This is what KME should have done if they felt it was necessary.
 
Bulldog said:
JohnnyBopp said:
Seriously though, KME was the bid winner.  No apparatus builder is any better than the other so lets just nip that right there.  KME bid low and won, so that's that. 
Click to expand...
Maybe it's not that!  If they can't meet the specifications and provide a quality product the contract will be pulled.  Your statement about no apparatus builder being better than any other just doesn't hold water.  If you've been in the fire service long enough you would certainly know that certain manufacturers apparatus hold up much better than that from other manufacturers.  As far as the old Macks go, everyone who worked on one of them knows they were the best ever manufactured.  Certainly that's partly because of the changes to the specifications for the new units but it's also because Mack realized that people's lives depended on the equipment they built so they built the best way possible.
Click to expand...

I gotta say, Mack's were a mean machine.  They worked like they looked, rugged and hard core.  However, Bopp up there is right.  Just as much as they were great, they were tough to deal with too.  You can't believe how many guys are deaf from riding the backstep next to that engine, YIKES.  LOUD as can be.  You just can't compare today's vehicles with the Mack CF.  The demands placed on the fire service today require a lot of bells and whistles be added to apparatus.  The NFPA, OSHA and the DEP have placed stringent demands on apparatus builders requiring them them to over complicate these builds to death.  Fire departments also spec the, with capabilities that require more electronics and such.  Mack is dead because they couldn't keep up.  In the past 15 years I've worked with E-One, Saulsbury, Pierce, Hackney, Sutphen, Seagrave and Ferrara.  They all did great things.....they all built some crap.  Who knows, I can't say with any conviction that any one is better than the next.
 
So with all the push-backs and everything, has there been a new date set for the FDNY to take delievery of the first batch of pumpers from KME? Or... Will there be a cut-off time for KME before FDNY pulls the plug on the contract?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top